<CORSA Chapters> Membership, dues and such (very long)
Ellison, Barry
BEllison at fiberweb.com
Fri Mar 14 06:59:05 EDT 2008
More newbie comments... Demographics 1st, I'm 46, happily married, 3 girls,
just 1 at home, 4 Corvairs, 2 driving, 2 projects, numerous parts, been
around corvairs about 12 years now. Been in CORSA for at least 8, local
CORSA SC for maybe 10, just off the BOD after at least 4 years on (VP, P,
then MAL for 2). I participate at conventions when I can, NECC when I can,
and SECC when I can. I prefer to time trial and auto-x vs show. Like
technical stuff.
Before I joined, the mandatory rule to be a member of CORSA was instated
locally. At our meeting this past Tuesday, this was finally put to a vote
and completely changed to be (and I paraphrase) '...recommended being a
member of CORSA..." The voting was 15 for, 1 against. I do not know why
the other 26 members did not vote. I suspect they knew the result. This is
more than an overwhelming majority. I question how the demographics have
changed so much over just a 10 year period. (rhetorical...but suspect the
new members don't like being forced - old adage of 'careful what you ask
for' applies... they asked for new members... got them.)
To my knowledge, when the requirement was originally instated, we did not
lose any members. We WOULD have had they not grandfathered in at least 2
members who refused. Those members are now out of Corvairs I'm afraid.
Would they be if we hadn't changed the rules? I do not know.
This all started last year when our then President (also on this list)
mailed back $7.50 to a mostly blind member half way thru the year for not
joining CORSA. He just wanted to read our local newsletter with his
magnifying glass. What a huge amount of negative publicity this is for our
local club.
We also have members we don't see due to work schedules. Yet we required
them to join CORSA w/o ever attending a local event. W/o the local club
support how do we convince them the benefits of CORSA? If they don't have
someone to help get their cars on the road, they'll drop both in a
heartbeat.
We've had people send their money in the past, refused to join CORSA, and
what did we do? Yes, we sent their money back. Now what happens? He's out
driving his Corvair all the time. Someone says, 'nice car. Member of a club
somewhere?' 'Nope, they don't want me unless I join the national club.'
Yes, that's GREAT publicity...NOT. That's a possible lose-lose-lose
situation: the guy asking, the local, and the national.
If you ask Clark's and Underground they have HUGE customer lists. The last
#s I saw were in the 60-100k range and those were ACTIVE customers as well.
Personally, I don't believe in a 1200 customers minimum per state. Seems
outrageous. But with only 5000+/- CORSA members, that's a huge potential
for negative publicity if even 10% do like the above example. With CORSA's
problems, we don't need ANY negative publicity, not one IOTA!
As membership chairman this year, I've also been in contact with one member
from last year who hasn't renewed with CORSA SC yet b/c of the requirement.
Now that the vote is done, he will be joining CORSA SC. The BOD has yet to
determine how much extra to charge non-CORSA members which will be sent to
CORSA.
Also, it's possible CORSA SC will lose a member from loosening the
requirement. I know of some that are stringent supporters of CORSA and if
you're not in...well... you're out with them and they won't talk to you. I
also feel is the wrong attitude. That's a pretty hard line.
IMHO of course, the local club should be the initial contact for new
members. If their local experience is good (for instance they don't have
people telling them they HAVE to join CORSA) and we tout CORSA benefits
often, show them communiqués, talk about insurance, how much support they
give, the CPF, etc, they'll WANT to join. We're here for encouragement and
support and socializing.
Does CORSA offer benefits to the owner? Of course it does, but let it stand
on it's own. If/when CORSA dies (doubt it will in next 10-15 yrs) the local
clubs will still be getting together. I guarantee it. How long? Cannot
tell.
Case in point...I personally spent about 5 hours Friday night getting a
newbie's car running when our local mechanic was at the Myrtle Beach show.
I did NOT want to publicize this at all as I think it's what we should all
do given the opportunity. But quite frankly I suppose it's a perfect
example of how the local club is to get and retain new members, and
therefore it should be shared. Some of us are all talk - I try to back it
up. Will I tell you when I do? Not necessarily. Some things I do only
result in making ME feel good when I service others. The example above was
to be one. Guess the cat is out of the bag.
Personally, do not tell me I have to do something. I won't do it for spite.
If CORSA SC changes back and tells me I HAVE to join CORSA, I will stay a
member of CORSA, and resign from CORSA SC in a heart beat. Sure wish I had
joined as a lifetime member - what a deal that was. Likewise, if CORSA
requires me to join a local, I will probably sell all my Corvair stuff, and
find something else to play with. Or worse yet, I'll keep them, drive them,
and when someone asks me about support or regional, national clubs, I'll do
like others have done... and tell them I'm not wanted.
On the note of requiring CORSA members to be local members: I'm sorry, I
don't get this concept at all. What's the point? To generate local
membership rolls? Do you just want his money? If he doesn't want to
participate you can't make him. Try to grab too much of mine, and see what
happens. You'll pull back a nub. :D To be clear, I've always supported
CORSA with my money and by attending events. I've supported CORSA SC in the
same manner as well as service as VP, P, MAL 2 years, and event leader in
addition.
"You get more bees with honey than vinegar." Too much vinegar lately. Some
of us have been eating too many pickles.
I hope this doesn't sound like a mal-content, b/c I'm not. I like CORSA or
I wouldn't be on this list. I like CORSA SC. I do NOT like being told to
do something. I also like my freedoms. We do need to find a good balance.
Barry Ellison
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Jones [mailto:65crownv8 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 12:11 AM
> To: CORSA Chapters
> Subject: Re: <CORSA Chapters> Membership, dues and such
>
> Just a suggestion from a newbie here:
>
> First, regarding the need to make all local club members CORSA members:
>
> Years ago, the Tidewater Corvair Club discussed becoming a 100% CORSA
> club, and because it was brought up from the membership, a long
> discussion ensued, (no raised voices, no fist pounding). The person
> who brought the motion forward had his ducks in a row. He approached
> the club officers and the "die hard members" and obtained their
> support for the motion, before bringing it to the attention of the
> club. When he brought the motion before the club, he highlighted all
> the reasons for becoming a member of CORSA, and had thought through
> all the arguments against. When all was said and done, the club voted
> to approve the motion. We didn't loose any members because of it, at
> least none that I am aware of.
>
> So rather than dumping a requirement on everyone, all at once, (yes, I
> realize this isn't whats being suggested) in the form of an article in
> the Communique, I would suggest that a concerted effort be made to get
> in touch with the local club officers, bring them on board first and
> give them the ammunition to argue for adopting a 100% policy, then
> have them stimulate the conversation at a club meeting.
>
> It's always easier to convince someone an idea is good, if you can
> make them feel it's their idea.
>
> Second, regarding making all CORSA members become local club members:
>
> I think this is going to be a little harder to do. Geography plays an
> important part in this decision, especially in many of the western
> states. Dues may, to a lesser extent, play a part as well. I'm also
> aware that personal politics plays a part as well. I don't believe
> most local clubs need the extra membership, but I do believe they need
> members to be more active in the club. I only have the Tidewater Club
> to judge from, but with a $12 annual dues, we aren't getting rich, nor
> are we going bankrupt. We tend to keep a couple thousand in the bank
> for club activities and hosting the Vair Fair. With an ever increasing
> number of members with email capability, our major expense (postage
> for newsletters) is actually decreasing.
>
> Just my $0.02 worth.
>
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 12:20 AM, Steve Goodman
> <rearengine.steve at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > Hello all: I have been one who wanted all CORSA members to be mandatory
> > members of a local club with the reservation that it is in the zipcode
> area.
> > As an example it would be tough to expect someone who lives in
> Scottsbluff,
> > Nebraska to be a mandatory member of Rocky Mountain Corsa in Denver,
> Colo.
> > On the other hand, there are CORSA members in the front range area who
> are
> > not RMC members. Since the bottom line here is "money" it is
> advantageous
> > to RMC to be able to collect as well as CORSA.
> >
> > I realize the word 'mandatory' is foul to some and I understand, owning
> my
> > own business makes me particulary subject to all kinds of mandatory
> rules
> > etc. At the same time, the mandatory membership in CORSA was done a
> bunch
> > of years ago and after the same initial fight was accepted. Then a
> change
> > in insurance carriers did away with it until now. At least that is how
> my
> > memory serves me.
> >
> > I also realize that a mandatory membership either way is certain to
> drive
> > some completely away from either CORSA or the local club and that isn't
> > acceptable either. It is difficult to find middle ground and I
> personally
> > have no answer. I keep thinking that someone out there will figure it
> out
> > but so far it hasn't happened.
> >
> > Best regards, Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Robert Marlow - Vairtec <Vairtec at optonline.net>
> > To: tim mahler <flat6vair at insightbb.com>; CORSA Chapters
> > <chapters at corvair.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 7:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: <CORSA Chapters> Membership, dues and such
> >
> >
> > > tim mahler wrote:
> > >
> > > >The easy one, some CORSA members are a long way from a local
> chapter, so
> > it
> > > >is hard to require local membership.
> > >
> > > I now reply:
> > >
> > > While I am not necessarily advocating that we make the switch to
> > > mandating CORSA membership for all chapter members, if we were to do
> > > such a thing I think it makes sense to require the reciprocal, too --
> > > that all CORSA members belong to a chapter.
> > >
> > > In the case where the CORSA member lives a loong way from the nearest
> > > chapter -- and this can be hundreds of miles -- it still will prove
> > > worthwhile to that individual. Through the membership in the local
> > > chapter, that individual will learn of other CORSA members in his
> > > region, maybe in his area, maybe in his neighborhood. He will learn
> > > of club activities nearer to him than the nominal chapter
> > > address. Both the individual and the chapter will benefit.
> > >
> > > But, as I said up front, I am not necessarily endorsing such a
> > > change. It would be a fundamental shift in the way that our hobby
> > > has done business. Would the benefits outweigh the detriments?
> > >
> > > --Bob
> > >
> > > Robert W Marlow
> > > Vairtec at optonline.net
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chapters mailing list
> > > Chapters at corvair.org
> > > http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/listinfo/chapters
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chapters mailing list
> > Chapters at corvair.org
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ask me how you can win this 64 Monza Convertible
>
> http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s114/65CrownV8/TCC%20Project%20Car/
>
> George Jones
> --------------------------------
> Tidewater Corvair Club (since 1987)
> Central Virginia Corvair Club (since 2006)
> Corvair Society of America (CORSA)(since 1987)
> '65 Monza Crown V8 Convertible
> http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2397326
> '66 Monza Coupe Custom (in progress)
> _______________________________________________
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