CORSA 2012: NECC: Issue Regarding 2012 Convention

Mon Jan 9 09:17:44 EST 2012

Good reserch work Ken.   Case is closed

On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Ken Schifftner <scrubbr at ix.netcom.com>wrote:

> Ken and others:
>
> Thanks.
>
> I found out something that may make the lunches issue moot.
>
> The Concours Judges are not under local jurisdiction, they "work" for the
> CORSA Concours Chairperson.  The local convention sponsor simply
> facilitates that effort.  Indeed at the Convention, the judges report to
> the CORSA Concours management, not to me, the local guy.  CORSA will be
> setting up the judges assignments etc. not the local clubs.
>
> The CORSA Concours Rules state "The Concours d'Elegance rules must be used
> at all CORSA International Conventions and sactioned regional conventions.
>  There are to be no local exceptions to these rules, no different
> interpretations nor innovations at CORSA Concours".  Seems pretty clear to
> me.
>
> I've been instructed by CORSA to provide for the lunches for their judges.
>  I've been told that such lunches are in the Convention budget. So as local
> Concours Chair, I need to, under the Rules, provide that service.
>
> I believe the rational for the lunches was/is to maintain a consistent
> core of CORSA judges, not just for this Convention but for future ones.
> Indeed, this core of judges functions at various conventions.
>
> Now, if the clubs want to get lunches or other benefits for the people (I
> agree with the concept) under their jurisdiction they certainly can.  If we
> whant to violate the CORSA Rules and not provide lunches, the convention
> management would  need to take that up with CORSA.
>
>
> Ken Schifftner
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Ken Klingaman <stingerken at earthlink.net>
> >Sent: Jan 8, 2012 7:38 PM
> >To: conv-2012 at corvair.org
> >Subject: Re: CORSA 2012: NECC: Issue Regarding 2012 Convention
> >
> >Being a judge, off and on since the early '80's, I can not recall when
> the lunches started. In one convention I spent 6 hours on a rally
> checkpoint, 3 hours
> >teching and classifying and then working as a corner worker for the
> afternoon, help photograph all the entered Corvairs, and judged. Nowhere
> was there a paid lunch.
> >The Concours has the highest labor burden per entrant of any other event,
> and possibly more than all the rest of the events combined. Until the
> Concours can complete in a morning, or an afternoon, the only rationale
> that makes sense is keeping the judges close to the site, not letting go
> off and take too much time getting back. This has been a problem.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >>From: rbuckridge at comcast.net
> >>Sent: Jan 8, 2012 4:21 PM
> >>To: Ken Schifftner <scrubbr at ix.netcom.com>
> >>Cc: mparoz1 at gmail.com, conv-2012 at corvair.org
> >>Subject: Re: CORSA 2012: NECC: Issue Regarding 2012 Convention
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>I am a big fan of tradition, but I am a bigger fan of fairness. If you
> feed one, you gotta feed'em all. It's only fair. I see it as being that
> simple.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>I do like Bob Marlow's idea of coupons for the hotel restaurant lunch.
> It makes a lot of sense and a great way to all work together.
> >>
> >>
> >>Roy
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>From: "Ken Schifftner" <scrubbr at ix.netcom.com>
> >>To: "Brian" <bmoneill at juno.com>, mparoz1 at gmail.com
> >>Cc: conv-2012 at corvair.org
> >>Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2012 11:04:36 AM
> >>Subject: Re: CORSA 2012: NECC: Issue Regarding 2012 Convention
> >>
> >>Brian:
> >>
> >>The reasons for the lunches for the Concours Judges are:
> >>
> >>1.  Lunches have been provided for the Judges for the last 25 years.
> >>2.  The previous judges expect a lunch since it has consistently been
> provided.
> >>3.  It is budgeted at least in part by CORSA.
> >>4.  The cost (about $600 total this year) is likely in the Concours
> registration fee.
> >>5.  The lunch is provided, in part, to solicit and retain judges.
> >>
> >>It is only in a very broad sense that we are volunteers. Of course all
> volunteers make a valuable effort. I'm sure we'd like to reward all if we
> could. CORSA, for 25 years however, has singled out the judges for being
> given lunches. I think this action recognizes that the level of effort for
> judges is different than that of other volunteers or it wouldn't have been
> done.
> >>
> >>This convention has a lot of new ideas that may, IMHO, be jeopardized by
> fighting a battle over something that has been an accepted and budgeted
> part of the Concours for decades. This is neither the time nor the place
> for this change.
> >>
> >>I've made a concerted effort to get the Concours folks to accept the
> switching of the Concours to the end of the week.  The comments have gone
> from "that won't work" and "they'll not have enough time to clean their
> vehicles" to "this might work...let's do it!".  The Concours "team" has
> been supportive and has had great ideas that have refined the Concours to
> make it very special for 2012..
> >>
> >>I think all of that positive trend can unravel if there is a fight over
> the lunches.
> >>
> >>As I've mentioned, if the judges are not provided a lunch as
> traditionally done, I will step aside as Concours Chairperson.  Someone
> else can do it.
> >>
> >>
> >>Ken Schifftner
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Brian <bmoneill at juno.com>
> >>>Sent: Jan 7, 2012 3:57 PM
> >>>To: mparoz1 at gmail.com
> >>>Cc: conv-2012 at corvair.org
> >>>Subject: Re: CORSA 2012: NECC: Issue Regarding 2012 Convention
> >>>
> >>>Only one day and I don't care what the lunch is------it's not fair.
> >>>
> >>>---------- Original Message ----------
> >>>From: michel paroz <mparoz1 at gmail.com>
> >>>To: Brian <bmoneill at juno.com>
> >>>Subject: Re: NECC: Issue Regarding 2012 Convention
> >>>Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 13:52:06 -0500
> >>>
> >>>Are we talking about a siting down lunch or a sanwich on the fly, just
> one day or the duration of the convention??
> >>> On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Brian <bmoneill at juno.com> wrote:
> >>>Gentlemen;
> >>>I'm writing today to inform you of an issue that has arisen regarding
> the Convention.  Over a number of years, a precedent has arisen in which
> the lunches for the Concours judges are paid for out of convention funds. I
> find this to be grossly unfair.  I am unable to see how the three or four
> hours they spend judging cars is in any way more of a contribution to the
> success of the convention than that of folks who will spend all day outside
> at the autocross site or in the hospitality suite or at the registration
> tables..  The contribution of these judges pales in comparison to the
> efforts of our convention staff who have made numerous trips to the hotel
> or to planning meeting and also spend time working on the web site,
> Communique input and other planning activities.
> >>>I am being pressured by the CORSA Convention Coordinator and by Ken
> Schiftner, the NJACE member who is the Concours guy on our staff.  I very
> much like Ken and respect all he has done both for the convention and
> NJACE.  My position should in no way be seen as a personal attack on him or
> anyone else.
> >>>To me this is not an issue of money although there have been
> suggestions about obtain alternative sources of funds.  To me it is a
> simple matter of fairness.
> >>>Ken has told me that if I do not approve of free lunches for the
> judges, he intends to resign.  As saddened as I will be if he does so I
> believe that my position is the right one.  Because I always tell people
> that I speak for the NECC not for myself, I need your comments on this.  I
> sincerely hope you will support me on this issue.
> >>>Please feel free to call me if you want to discuss in more detail than
> I might have provided here.
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