[FC] lower shrouds
Mikeamauro at aol.com
Mikeamauro at aol.com
Tue Jan 3 09:06:15 EST 2012
"...You need the inner cylinder baffles to stay away from hot spots.
Without the heater shrouds there is a longer warm up period. It all should be
common knowledge by now..."
GM actually performed a study (documented somewhere I cannot immediately
put my hands on) with the lower shrouds on & off... with shrouds off, engine
temps were something like 17-degrees less.
Mike Mauro
In a message dated 1/3/2012 8:26:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
vairmech at aol.com writes:
All good info. BUT, GM had to find a cross over to please the customer and
the engineers. Therein comes the heater shrouds. They please the customer
because they stay warm, sort of anyway. The shrouding and other things
talked about in the post below we already know needs to be in place and that is
the inter-cylinder baffles and the corner sheet metal. Without those the
engine will do exactly as was mentioned. Other than the slightly longer warm
up and no real cabin heat there is nothing wrong with removing the lower
shrouds. It is a proven fact that this will lower temps on the engine and
even alluded to in the lower post. Do you think the "off roaders" use lower
heater shrouds?
You really need to study the lower post to get the meaning out of it. It
says the same thing that we all have said and know. You need the inner
cylinder baffles to stay away from hot spots. Without the heater shrouds there
is a longer warm up period. It all should be common knowledge by now.
Ken Hand
248-613-8586
www.corvairmechanic.com
http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x118/vairmech/Viet%20Nam%20Pictures%20197
1/
-----Original Message-----
From: RON BLOOM <bloomaz at msn.com>
To: corvanatics <corvanatics at corvair.org>
Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:08 am
Subject: [FC] lower shrouds
Here is a other point of view from a local club member, Tucson Corvair
Association,, Wanted to pass it on and see what everybody thinks...
Ron J Bloom
Tucson, az
62 Greenbrier Deluxe A/C 110 Slushy
64 open 110 / 4
HI
Ron, You are into duct work, take a look at what GM designed think
about how you go about deflecting air into smaller ducts or how you get
more efficiency out of longer runs! GM wanted an even distribution of
air over the cylinders so there would
be no hot or cold spots in the engine heads, cylinder sleeves or the
block, The duct work was flow tested to manage the air flow most
efficiently (I've been told at 135*) and not with heat for the passenger
compartment that is an after thought of the engine
cooling possess. Any modifications to the duct work changes the flow of
air around the hotter parts of the engine decreasing the efficiency not
enhancing it. Simple stat and door removal dose not change the flow
patterns of the cooling air, only the warm
up and that here in Tucson in the summer is not a problem as the start
up temperature is already at 100+.
Remember these off roaders use these VW and Corvairs out in the
hottest areas of all and they love them. Are they all wrong
???????????.......
Problems increase when the air ducts are modified may range from
more problematic vapor lock, less officiant fuel consumption Cylinder
scoring and premature engine failure, but none the less modifications
cause more problems than they cure.
Looking at it a different way some modifications that have been
made other than duct work add to the temperature of the engine, jet
changes in the carburetor, HP changes (changing to a higher HP engine in
a Van) the 80 runs 10-12* cooler than a 110 as
the 140 runs a few degrees hotter than that. Timing changes some cars
and trucks have miss aligned timing marks, some timing lights blink
late. There is a hint in these problems that tells any one working on
an overheating Corvair that there are some other
means to reduce engine temperature with out re-engineering the duct
work. Corvairs run hot++++++ they are made to get hot, they work well
hot, thats the story of the high performance air cool engine.
Suggestions: a good 10w-30 engine oil, 80-90 gear lube, rebuilt
and properly greased front and rear wheel bearings, if ping is a problem
reduce the plug temperature by one or two levels, check the
engine timing, make sure valves are adjusted correctly.
Do the simple and right things to correct the problems, do not push the
envelope and cause more frustrating problems, the way I look at it if GM
had wanted more HOLES they would have put them in the system somwhere,
after all they did give us the summer and
winter plate over the oil cooler. . JIM Flatsix
P.S. Pass this along it feels right from the Corvairs point of view,
"maybe
there right" and modifications are not!
> From: corvanatics-request at corvair.org
> Subject: Corvanatics Digest, Vol 84, Issue 3
> To: corvanatics at corvair.org
> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 12:00:01 -0500
>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Corvanatics digest..."
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: bottom shrouds and damper doors (Dennis Pleau)
> 2. Re: Front FC Undertray (rod murray)
> 3. lowering springs (robert guerin)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 15:27:42 -0800
> From: "Dennis Pleau" <dpleau at wavecable.com>
> Subject: Re: [FC] bottom shrouds and damper doors
> To: <corvanatics at corvair.org>
> Message-ID: <02e901ccc8dc$f60e89d0$e22b9d70$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I still think Dave Huntoon in NM has the best solution. He punches 3
about
> 2" holes on the bottom of lower shrouds on the flat part under each
> cylinder.
>
> In the summer the holes are open. In the winter, he puts what I call
'goof
> plugs', usually chrome and have a bunch of fingers on the back and snap
in
> to the holes thereby sealing the holes off. Summer to winter and winter
to
> summer change over time ~5 minutes You can get a little heat even with
the
> plugs out.
>
> dp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: corvanatics-bounces at corvair.org
> [mailto:corvanatics-bounces at corvair.org] On Behalf Of Ken Hand
> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 3:06 PM
> To: corvanatics at corvair.org
> Subject: Re: [FC] bottom shrouds and damper doors
>
> Even here in MI I run without the lower shrouds on, no debate needed.
Even
> in the cooler temps you will still get heat in the cabin just not as
> intense. I know, 60 degrees is freezing to you out there! LOL The only
> thing that happens with the lower shrouds off is the engine takes longer
to
> warm up, therefore more unburned fuel in the crank case and etc.
>
> I'm not sure how long the Desert Proving Grounds (Tucson, now Yuma) have
> been around but I am pretty sure all cars have been tested at the
extremes
> of temperature, hot and cold. I know I have been to CO. and up in the
> mountains testing in altitude, 5000' and above. I know they go to
> Kapuskasing, Canada in Jan and Feb. It isn't warm up there then. Also
> through Death Valley. I am sure that the Corvairs were tested as
delivered
> with the shrouds on and t-stats in place.
>
>
>
>
>
> Ken Hand
> 248-613-8586
> www.corvairmechanic.com
>
>
http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x118/vairmech/Viet%20Nam%20Pictures%20197
> 1/
> iety of America, http://www.corvair.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 19:44:33 -0500
> From: rod murray <rmurray8996 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [FC] Front FC Undertray
> To: BBRT <chsadek at comcast.net>, Roger Becker <rabjab at cox.net>
> Cc: Corvanatics List <corvanatics at corvair.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAGcmz+pO=NuwW0P1R1J8YdgyzKKTv+F3VWE4okJtk3QqnFKhCw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Contact roger becker of vintage CORSA (orange co, ca) for a very nice
> repro. He's. Cc'ed on this note.
>
> Rod Murray
> WPCC
> 64 brier
>
> On Saturday, December 31, 2011, BBRT <chsadek at comcast.net> wrote:
> > Does anyone know of the correct nomenclature of the sheet metal panel
> > residing under the front of the cab on an FC? There to prevent snow and
> > slush, ice, etc. gathering on brake and pedal assy. It also reduces
drafts
> > into cab. Of course, the 64-65 panel flap helps immensely.
> >
> > Does anyone make reproductions? Seems to me I heard someone did. We can
> make
> > reproductions if no one else does.
> >
> > Chuck S
> > Vair Fast Engineering
> > Fredericksburg, VA.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Corvanatics mailing list
> > Corvanatics at corvair.org
> > http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/listinfo/corvanatics
> > This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America,
> http://www.corvair.org/
> >
>
> --
> Rod
> *"Reloaded in da 'burgh"*
> 412-719-3449
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 08:37:38 -0800 (PST)
> From: robert guerin <miniachers at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [FC] lowering springs
> To: corvan group <corvanatics at corvair.org>
> Message-ID:
> <1325522258.64980.YahooMailNeo at web30601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Does anyone know what springs are use to lower front on a fc?
> ?
> Thanks
> robert guerin 63rampy & 64 greenbrier
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of Corvanatics Digest, Vol 84, Issue 3
> ******************************************
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