[NoVa-Corvairs] RE: Car Questions
ALBERT BIRKS
novacc-list@corvair.org
Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:02:20 -0400
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Mike:
Welcome to Corvair "ownership". One of the first things you will find yo=
urself doing =20
is getting another Corvair -- for parts, to diversify your collection or =
just that it
was too good of a deal to pass up! Just kidding, but talk to the other =
owners and
you will see what I mean. =20
Curt gave you some good advice. Limit your efforts directly to the crank=
shaft either
at the rear pulley end or the flywheel, if it is available. Also check t=
he bolts as Curt
suggests. If a bolt has been cranked into the flywheel, the motor won't =
turn because
it is pinned. Don't try to break the engine free by rocking or rolling t=
he car and letting =20
out the clutch with the transmission in gear. Your engine is stuck too t=
ight for that =20
and it will probably break items that are in great shape.
A good penetrant to consider is Liquid Wrench. This stuff can be purchas=
ed in bulk -
quarts to one gallon size and may be more effective than Marvel Mystery O=
il. Don't forget
that you will have to drain all of the stuff out if you finally break the=
engine free. If
it get left in, you might bend a rod. Too bad you can't isolate the stuc=
k piston, if it is that,
and simply remove the piston assembly from the engine in place. I prefer=
to pull the =20
engine - an experienced mechanic can pull the engine in 30 minutes. Your=
selection
of a good jack (3 ton) with a wide face is necessary since the whole asse=
mbly must be
balanced on the jack when it is lowered and rolled out from under the car=
The rear
needs to be jacked up so that the rear edge clears the removed engine hei=
ght plus
the height of the jack full down. You will need 2 good vehicle support ja=
cks to hold
the body steady during removal and reinstallation.
Regardless of whether the engine is in the vehicle or removed, the applic=
ation of heat to =20
the cylinders might help break them loose, but be very careful to avoid s=
etting the =20
engine on fire and don't overheat. Corvair pistons are rather delicate =
items and
don't tolerate too much stress.
Regarding repairing your floor, try to pick up the stiffeners used on the=
original floor with
screws or pop rivets (preferred) from the inside. I used a galvanized sh=
eet combined with =20
fiberglass to fix a floor that was almost non-existent. Worked very well=
and was as =20
stiff and solid as a new floor. =20
Al Birks
----- Original Message -----
From: Puglisi, Michael
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 11:36 AM
To: 'curtis l shimp'; 'novacc-list@corvair.org'
Subject: [NoVa-Corvairs] RE: Car Questions
Curt (and all)-
Thanks for all the great advice. I'm sending this response (with many ne=
w
questions)to the whole group. Thanks for the address.
Concerning the floorboard, there are several holes about the size of a di=
me
and one about the size of a quarter. So it sounds like the POR-15 with
fiberglass or POR-15 then cover with sheet metal is the way to go. I
suppose you screw the sheet metal to the top of the floorboard (inside th=
e
cabin- and not to the underside)?
Concerning the engine, I don't know whether the bell housing was out when
the clutch was worked on. Wouldn't that problem be immediately evident? =
We
drove it home from the shop without any trouble. The clutch seems okay.
The car seems to go into and out of gears fine (rolls in neutral, doesn't=
in
gear). =20
Anyway, I'd love to get it to turn over without pulling it out or apart. =
I
guess its worth another try with penetrating oil in the cylinders. I rea=
d
somewhere to mix kerosene with marvel mystery oil in a 1 to 1 ratio. Any
thoughts on that? I guess I need to keep working that crankshaft bolt wi=
th
as big a wrench as I can find. I was told to use a breaker bar but I can=
't
get a socket on that bolt because there's not enough clearance. So I've
just been using a combination wrench (and not getting much leverage). I
guess I should only be trying to turn that bolt one way (counter clockwis=
e).
Right?
I also read somewhere a jammed starter could cause a no crank situation. =
I
guess that's worth a shot. =20
If it turns out nothing else frees the engine, I'm guessing it's probably
the piston rings adhered (rusted) to the cylinder wall(s). Agree? Or is=
it
just as likely to be a something else stuck (could it just be a valve)? =
I
guess what I'm getting at is, if the problem is rings or something in the
head, wouldn't it be easier to pull off the head (one or the other, or bo=
th)
with the engine in the car? Obviously, its much easier to work on the
engine out of the car but is it worth the trouble? =20
Last question- I'm about to buy a floor jack. I plan to buy a middle to
high end one at Sears.
On some jacks, the part that makes contact with the car is a relatively
large diameter metal dish(maybe 6 inches wide). On others, that part is
much smaller. I was planning on buying one with a wide dish unless someo=
ne
suggests otherwise. =20
I welcome all comments/advice anyone has about these issues or anything e=
lse
for that matter. =20
For those on this distribution list who don't know who I am, I'm new to t=
he
NVCC. I have my grandmother's '61 500 coupe (80 hp, 3-speed) that I'm
trying to get running. Assuming I do get it running, I plan to keep the =
car
and enjoy it (as long as I can do it justice). =20
Thanks to all. I look forward to your reply.
-Mike Puglisi
email- PUGLISIM@CDER.FDA.GOV =20
or ANNEPUGS@AOL.COM
Phone- 301-942-2396 (h)
301-827-2522 (w) =20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: curtis l shimp [mailto:clshimp@juno.com] =20
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 3:44 PM
To: PuglisiM@cder.fda.gov
Subject: Re: Car Questions
Mike:
Thanks for the note and it was good to see a fresh face at the last meeti=
ng.
Regarding small holes in the floor boards, I think the POR-15 and then
POR-15 plus fiberglass will work well. If the holes are small enough, pa=
int
the floor with the POR-15 and then you could also use tape under the hole=
s
and just mix up some J B Weld (epoxy) and fill the holes. It is a simple=
r
way to go. If the holes are too big, say larger then a pencil, then the
fiber glass would be a better patch. For even larger holes you could use
the POR-15 and then patch with galvanized metal sheet, screw it to the fl=
oor
and with a caulk or silicone sealer around the parameter.
About the engine, I would spend more time ensuring yourself that the engi=
ne
can not be freed while in place. While the clutch could been frozen
between the pressure plate and the flywheel (it does happen) that is not
keeping the engine from turning. When the car is in neutral you should b=
e
able to turn over the engine and the clutch/pressure plate assembly. Was
the flywheel and bell housing out during the clutch replacement?? It
normally does not need to be but if it was, it is not unusual to put the
bell housing bolts in the wrong holes. The bolts are not all the same
length and some use washers under the head and some definitely don't use
washers. This will lock up the engine. Anyway using the penetrating oil=
in
through the spark plug holes I would fill them up and let it soak a week =
and
try again. The trans can come off the engine with out pulling the engine
put it puts a lot of strain on the motor mounts and on the long (over 20'=
)
input shaft from the trans to the flywheel.
I don't know anyone personally that has the equipment to tow but if you h=
ave
some one with hitch on the back of a pickup truck all you need is a tow
dolly (the rear of the Corvair goes on the dolly) and some magnetic mount=
ed
brake lights. However, you need someway, a winch?, of pulling the Corvai=
r
up on the tow dolly.
Yes, the club has a e-mail membership list, novacc-list@corvair.org, to
which you can send all of you Corvair questions or comments. Not everyon=
e
in the club is on the list but if you would like to have your address
included, e-mail the list administrator, Bryan Blackwell (he was at the l=
ast
meeting with the Corvair van) at "bryan@skiblack.com".
Curt Shimp
_______________________________________________
Novacc-list mailing list
Novacc-list@corvair.org
http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/listinfo/novacc-list
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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Mike:</DIV> <D=
IV> </DIV> <DIV>Welcome to Corvair "ownership". One of the fir=
st things you will find yourself doing </DIV> <DIV>is getting another Cor=
vair -- for parts, to diversify your collection or just that it</DIV> <DI=
V>was too good of a deal to pass up! Just kidding, but talk t=
o the other owners and</DIV> <DIV>you will see what I mean. </DIV> =
<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Curt gave you some good advice. Limit your e=
fforts directly to the crankshaft either</DIV> <DIV>at the rear pulley en=
d or the flywheel, if it is available. Also check the bolts as Curt=
</DIV> <DIV>suggests. If a bolt has been cranked into the flywheel,=
the motor won't turn because</DIV> <DIV>it is pinned. Don't try to=
break the engine free by rocking or rolling the car and letting </DIV> <=
DIV>out the clutch with the transmission in gear. Your engine is st=
uck too tight for that </DIV> <DIV>and it will probably break items that =
are in great shape.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A good penetrant to cons=
ider is Liquid Wrench. This stuff can be purchased in bulk -</DIV> =
<DIV>quarts to one gallon size and may be more effective than Marvel=
Mystery Oil. Don't forget</DIV> <DIV>that you will have to drain a=
ll of the stuff out if you finally break the engine free. If</=
DIV> <DIV>it get left in, you might bend a rod. Too bad you ca=
n't isolate the stuck piston, if it is that,</DIV> <DIV>and simply remove=
the piston assembly from the engine in place. I prefer to pull the=
</DIV> <DIV>engine - an experienced mechanic can pull the engine in 30 m=
inutes. Your selection</DIV> <DIV>of a good jack (3 ton) with a wid=
e face is necessary since the whole assembly must be</DIV> <DIV>balanced =
on the jack when it is lowered and rolled out from under the car. T=
he rear</DIV> <DIV>needs to be jacked up so that the rear edge clears the=
removed engine height plus</DIV> <DIV>the height of the jack full down. =
You will need 2 good vehicle support jacks to hold</DIV> <DIV>the body st=
eady during removal and reinstallation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rega=
rdless of whether the engine is in the vehicle or removed, the applicatio=
n of heat to </DIV> <DIV>the cylinders might help break them loose, <U>bu=
t be very careful to </U><U>avoid setting the </U></DIV> <DIV><U>engine o=
n fire and don't overheat. </U> Corvair pistons are rather del=
icate items and</DIV> <DIV>don't tolerate too much stress.</DIV> <DIV>&nb=
sp;</DIV> <DIV>Regarding repairing your floor, try to pick up the stiffen=
ers used on the original floor with</DIV> <DIV>screws or pop rivets (pref=
erred) from the inside. I used a galvanized sheet combined with </D=
IV> <DIV>fiberglass to fix a floor that was almost non-existent. Wo=
rked very well and was as </DIV> <DIV>stiff and solid as a new floor.&nbs=
p; </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Al Birks</DIV> <BLOCKQ=
UOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BO=
RDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10p=
t Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4=
e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> Puglisi, Michael</DIV>=
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 26, 2004 11:3=
6 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> 'curtis l shimp'; '=
novacc-list@corvair.org'</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject=
:</B> [NoVa-Corvairs] RE: Car Questions</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Curt (and =
all)-<BR><BR>Thanks for all the great advice. I'm sending this resp=
onse (with many new<BR>questions)to the whole group. Thanks for the=
address.<BR><BR>Concerning the floorboard, there are several holes about=
the size of a dime<BR>and one about the size of a quarter. So it s=
ounds like the POR-15 with<BR>fiberglass or POR-15 then cover with sheet =
metal is the way to go. I<BR>suppose you screw the sheet metal to t=
he top of the floorboard (inside the<BR>cabin- and not to the underside)?=
<BR><BR>Concerning the engine, I don't know whether the bell housing was =
out when<BR>the clutch was worked on. Wouldn't that problem be imme=
diately evident? We<BR>drove it home from the shop without any trou=
ble. The clutch seems okay.<BR>The car seems to go into and out of =
gears fine (rolls in neutral, doesn't in<BR>gear). <BR><BR>An=
yway, I'd love to get it to turn over without pulling it out or apart.&nb=
sp; I<BR>guess its worth another try with penetrating oil in the cylinder=
s. I read<BR>somewhere to mix kerosene with marvel mystery oil in a=
1 to 1 ratio. Any<BR>thoughts on that? I guess I need to kee=
p working that crankshaft bolt with<BR>as big a wrench as I can find.&nbs=
p; I was told to use a breaker bar but I can't<BR>get a socket on that bo=
lt because there's not enough clearance. So I've<BR>just been using=
a combination wrench (and not getting much leverage). I<BR>guess I=
should only be trying to turn that bolt one way (counter clockwise).<BR>=
Right?<BR><BR>I also read somewhere a jammed starter could cause a no cra=
nk situation. I<BR>guess that's worth a shot. <BR><BR>If it turns o=
ut nothing else frees the engine, I'm guessing it's probably<BR>the pisto=
n rings adhered (rusted) to the cylinder wall(s). Agree? Or i=
s it<BR>just as likely to be a something else stuck (could it just be a v=
alve)? I<BR>guess what I'm getting at is, if the problem is rings o=
r something in the<BR>head, wouldn't it be easier to pull off the head (o=
ne or the other, or both)<BR>with the engine in the car? Obviously,=
its much easier to work on the<BR>engine out of the car but is it worth =
the trouble? <BR><BR>Last question- I'm about to buy a floor jack.&=
nbsp; I plan to buy a middle to<BR>high end one at Sears.<BR>On some jack=
s, the part that makes contact with the car is a relatively<BR>large diam=
eter metal dish(maybe 6 inches wide). On others, that part is<BR>mu=
ch smaller. I was planning on buying one with a wide dish unless so=
meone<BR>suggests otherwise. <BR><BR>I welcome all comments/advice =
anyone has about these issues or anything else<BR>for that matter. <BR>Fo=
r those on this distribution list who don't know who I am, I'm new to the=
<BR>NVCC. I have my grandmother's '61 500 coupe (80 hp, 3-speed) th=
at I'm<BR>trying to get running. Assuming I do get it running, I pl=
an to keep the car<BR>and enjoy it (as long as I can do it justice). =
; <BR><BR>Thanks to all. I look forward to your reply.<BR><BR>-Mike=
Puglisi<BR>email- PUGLISIM@CDER.FDA.GOV <BR>or ANNEPUGS@AOL.COM<BR>Phone=
- 301-942-2396 (h)<BR> 301-827-2522 (w) <BR><BR>=
<BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: curtis l shimp=
[mailto:clshimp@juno.com] <BR>Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 3:44 PM<BR>To=
: PuglisiM@cder.fda.gov<BR>Subject: Re: Car Questions<BR><BR><BR>Mike:<BR=
><BR>Thanks for the note and it was good to see a fresh face at the last =
meeting.<BR><BR>Regarding small holes in the floor boards, I think the PO=
R-15 and then<BR>POR-15 plus fiberglass will work well. If the hole=
s are small enough, paint<BR>the floor with the POR-15 and then you could=
also use tape under the holes<BR>and just mix up some J B Weld (epoxy) a=
nd fill the holes. It is a simpler<BR>way to go. If the holes=
are too big, say larger then a pencil, then the<BR>fiber glass would be =
a better patch. For even larger holes you could use<BR>the POR-15 a=
nd then patch with galvanized metal sheet, screw it to the floor<BR>and w=
ith a caulk or silicone sealer around the parameter.<BR><BR>About the eng=
ine, I would spend more time ensuring yourself that the engine<BR>can not=
be freed while in place. While the clutch could been frozen<=
BR>between the pressure plate and the flywheel (it does happen) that is n=
ot<BR>keeping the engine from turning. When the car is in neutral y=
ou should be<BR>able to turn over the engine and the clutch/pressure plat=
e assembly. Was<BR>the flywheel and bell housing out during the clu=
tch replacement?? It<BR>normally does not need to be but if it was,=
it is not unusual to put the<BR>bell housing bolts in the wrong holes.&n=
bsp; The bolts are not all the same<BR>length and some use washers under =
the head and some definitely don't use<BR>washers. This will lock u=
p the engine. Anyway using the penetrating oil in<BR>through the sp=
ark plug holes I would fill them up and let it soak a week and<BR>try aga=
in. The trans can come off the engine with out pulling the engine<B=
R>put it puts a lot of strain on the motor mounts and on the long (over 2=
0')<BR>input shaft from the trans to the flywheel.<BR><BR>I don't know an=
yone personally that has the equipment to tow but if you have<BR>some one=
with hitch on the back of a pickup truck all you need is a tow<BR>dolly =
(the rear of the Corvair goes on the dolly) and some magnetic mounted<BR>=
brake lights. However, you need someway, a winch?, of pulling the C=
orvair<BR>up on the tow dolly.<BR><BR>Yes, the club has a e-mail membersh=
ip list, novacc-list@corvair.org, to<BR>which you can send all of you Cor=
vair questions or comments. Not everyone<BR>in the club is on the l=
ist but if you would like to have your address<BR>included, e-mail the li=
st administrator, Bryan Blackwell (he was at the last<BR>meeting with the=
Corvair van) at "bryan@skiblack.com".<BR><BR>Curt Shimp<BR><BR>_________=
______________________________________<BR>Novacc-list mailing list<BR>Nov=
acc-list@corvair.org<BR>http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/listinfo/novacc=
-list<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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