[NoVa-Corvairs] August Meeting and Work Completed
Darrin Hartzler
dhartzler at ifc.org
Mon Aug 20 09:31:35 EDT 2012
My turbo car used to vapor lock occasionally, but only after a hot run
when I would park for ten or twenty minutes and come back to start
her...would have to wait for her to cooldown. Was not common for that
car. Never had vapor lock issues in a non-turbo vair.....not saying it
isn't possible on a very hot day, but probably not the issue with the
Green machine.
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From:
Richard Widman <rwidman at gmail.com>
To:
Northern Va Corvair Club <novacc-list at corvair.org>
Date:
08/20/2012 07:38 AM
Subject:
Re: [NoVa-Corvairs] August Meeting and Work Completed
That was common in a lot of cars of the time. It is called "vapor lock".
There should be an insulator under the carbs that limits the heat transfer
to the carbs. I don't know that is is a common problem in Vairs, as I only
have one, and from the start I put in the electric pump, at the tank, with
steel lines to the carbs. I was mostly concerned with reliability of
mechanical pumps since I've had many problems with them in the last 60
years or so.
But it really needs to get hot for that to happen. You can see how I
installed my electric pump on my site, and it isn't hard, but from your
comments earlier I'd recommend you become much more familiar with
mechanics and the system before changing it out your self. I used 4 meters
of steel tubing, the recommended Airtex pump, but threw out the airtex
"filter" that is about 200 micron or larger and put on a Donaldson filter
that is about 20 or 40 micron.
_________________________________
Richard L. Widman | CEO
(591-3) 344-2233 / (591-7) 705-2487
www.widman.biz
Widman International S.R.L.
Carretera al Norte km 6
Santa Cruz de la Sierra - Bolivia
On Aug 19, 2012, at 9:54 PM, justin smalley wrote:
> Anyone ever heard of this?
> If you have been driving down a road for a considerable time and engine
is hot and you suddenly glide to a halt, as if you have no gas, and yet
you do, you may have this condition.When the engine compartment temp is
hot enough to turn the fuel in the pump and lines into vapor, the gas
vapor expands pushing the fuel left in the lines back into the tank. Thus,
your car is only running on the little fuel in the carburetor bowl area,
which is not much. Once used, you stop and must wait until the engine
cools off enough for it not to happen. However, it also happens frequently
after the car has been parked between 10-30 minutes on a hot day in the
sun. The reason for this is because today?s gas contains more alcohol
which has a lower boiling point than the gas of the 1960s. Corvair engines
run hot, hence the issue to be aware of. The ONLY thing a corvair owner
can do is to install an electric fuel pump inside their gas tank or near
it. It is not necessary
> to remove the mechanical fuel pump. Connect the electric pump to the
fuse box under the dash at the radio terminal for 1960-66, and at the IGN
Fused one for 67-69.--- On Sun, 8/19/12, Justin Paul <jp0181 at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> From: Justin Paul <jp0181 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [NoVa-Corvairs] August Meeting and Work Completed
> To: "Northern Va Corvair Club" <novacc-list at corvair.org>
> Cc: "Northern Va Corvair Club" <novacc-list at corvair.org>
> Date: Sunday, August 19, 2012, 9:00 PM
>
> After reading up. The later models pump can be used I just have to use
the later models pushrod.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:54 PM, Justin Paul <jp0181 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Or an extra battery charger or jump start I can borrow. Would be
appreciated. I'm in the process of trying to get things.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:37 PM, Justin Paul <jp0181 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If anyone has an extra pump they all apparently fit eachother?!
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:21 PM, Justin Paul <jp0181 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you! I will try all methods. Really appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:12 PM, "jjwallen" <jjwallen at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Justin,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been following your message on what appears to be your fuel
problem.
>>>>> By way of introduction, I am a charter member of Northern VA Corvair
Club.
>>>>> I have not been very active in the club in the last few years due to
health
>>>>> problems that seem to be improving. I have had several corvairs,
all 1965,
>>>>> 1967 and 1969. I have not done much on model years before 1965. I
suspect
>>>>> the fuel system for the earlier models and the late models are quite
>>>>> similar. I have had experience with fuel problems on vehicles that
have
>>>>> been stored for years without much activity. On problem I have
found begins
>>>>> with the sock type filter located at the inlet to the fuel line
inside the
>>>>> fuel tank. This filter tends to become coated with a layer of
shellac that
>>>>> limits or prevents fuel from entering the fuel line inside the tank.
I have
>>>>> had varying degrees at solving this problem. The sure fire method
is to
>>>>> remove the plate on the tank holding the fuel gauge sender and gas
line and
>>>>> clear or replace the filter. Before attempting any replacement of
parts I
>>>>> would recommend you run a few diagnostic tests to determine the
source of
>>>>> the problem. Gasoline is a very dangerous material, and if you are
not
>>>>> familiar with working with it you should rely on someone who is
experienced
>>>>> to assist you.You can check the to see if the filter inside the tank
is
>>>>> clogged by disconnecting the fuel line at the input to the fuel
pump,
>>>>> attaching a hand vacuum pump to the line coming from the tank,and
see if
>>>>> fuel flows freely. If the fuel flows freely, you know the problem
is not
>>>>> between the fuel pump and the tank. If the pump produces a vacuum
but
>>>>> little or no fuel you know there is most likely a blockage inside
the tank.
>>>>> If the pump does not develop a vacuum, and does not produce fuel,
you may:
>>>>> (1) have hole in the metal or rubber sections of the fuel line;(2)
the fuel
>>>>> line inside the tank may have a leak above the fuel level; (3)
sediment has
>>>>> built up inside the tank, and the fuel level is not high enough to
be picked
>>>>> up (this is highly unlikely); (4) the rotating mechanism has siezed
and does
>>>>> not drop down to a level where the fuel can be picked up (if the
vehicle was
>>>>> parked with a substantial amount of fuel for a long period this may
occur,
>>>>> but again is unlikely.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the problem is not inside the tank or the line from the tank to
the fuel
>>>>> pump, you can reconnect the input to the pump, and disconnect one of
the
>>>>> lines going from the fuel pump to the carburetor. If there is no
fuel or
>>>>> very little fuel when you disconnect the fuel line the fuel pump is
probably
>>>>> defective. You can further check the pump by attaching a flexible
hose to
>>>>> the open end of the fuel line and cranking the engine. Again, be
careful to
>>>>> follow safe practices for handling gasoline while doing this test.
>>>>> Typically this is done in an open area where a spark can not ignite
vapors.
>>>>> The discharge end of the flexible hose typically is inserted into a
stable
>>>>> container that will catch the fuel if the fuel pump is working. If
there is
>>>>> not fuel, this is a pretty sure sign that the fuel pump is
defective. Care
>>>>> should be exercised when changing the pump. The pump handle should
not be
>>>>> operated by hand since some pumps can be damaged by overextending
the
>>>>> diaphragm and causing a leak. Some corvair pumps will develop a
leak which
>>>>> allows fuel to go directly into the crank case. Several years ago
one of my
>>>>> son's had a low grade explosion in the crank case from this type of
leak.
>>>>>
>>>>> If fuel is getting to the carbs, then your problem is probably due
to the
>>>>> carbs.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a few procedures that may be used to open up a clogged
filter
>>>>> inside the tank without removing the tank. One that I used with
some
>>>>> success was to disconnect the fuel line between the tank and pump
and inject
>>>>> acetone into the line. I would only recommend this as an extreme
measure
>>>>> since it also can be dangerous, and can harm some components in the
system
>>>>> if the acetone is not flushed from the system fairly quickly, and
before
>>>>> reconnecting to the fuel pump.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are not experienced at working with automotive fuel systems,
be sure
>>>>> to get someone who is to assist you, because it can be very
dangerous if not
>>>>> done under proper conditions and with proper equipment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck.
>>>>>
>>>>> James Wallen
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Justin Paul
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 8:52 PM
>>>>> To: Northern Va Corvair Club
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NoVa-Corvairs] August Meeting and Work Completed
>>>>>
>>>>> I actually dumped two gallons in, nada. The jets are not squirting?!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 18, 2012, at 8:42 PM, Darrin Hartzler <dhartzler at ifc.org>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The car should idle fie even if the pumps are not working. I
really think
>>>>>> that the car is just out of gas right now. Dump a couple gallons
in and
>>>>>> see if she will run.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Accelerator pumps should work, as they are intact, just stiff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Darrin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Justin Paul [jp0181 at yahoo.com]
>>>>>> Sent: 08/18/2012 08:11 PM AST
>>>>>> To: Northern Va Corvair Club <novacc-list at corvair.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Northern Va Corvair Club <novacc-list at corvair.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NoVa-Corvairs] August Meeting and Work Completed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm pretty anxious to resolve this issue i would be willing to pay
anyone
>>>>>> with the carb and fuel knowledge $14 for the two accelerator pumps
and $40
>>>>>> or so to help resolve the fuel issue and install the pumps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 18, 2012, at 7:30 PM, justin smalley <jp0181 at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you all for those of you who did show up and to Ron for his
off
>>>>>>> hours help.I really appreciated it! My carbs were cleaned
thoroughly,
>>>>>>> battery connections changed out, timing set and the comrady!
>>>>>>> Unfortunately the car made it down the road and was starving for
fuel and
>>>>>>> Greg believes my accelerator pumps are bad or weak.
>>>>>>> The carbs are not squirting and that seriously sucks, but my car
looks
>>>>>>> good!I know we all can't meet up all the time, but I am really
trying to
>>>>>>> resolve these initial issues so I can drive this car away from
home to
>>>>>>> repair the loud exhaust and etc.
>>>>>>> If any of you have 2 accelerator pumps I would gladly pay you for
them,
>>>>>>> asap.
>>>>>>> I may have someone who may help me put them in, but haven't
secured that
>>>>>>> as a resource yet.
>>>>>>> As always I know we are all busy, but we were so close today.
Sucks when
>>>>>>> you have a beauty of a car just sitting, lol.
>>>>>>> I have some time tomorrow anyone not busy and want some gas money
to come
>>>>>>> out a help a partner?!
>>>>>>> Enjoy your weekend!!!
>>>>>>> v/r
>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Novacc-list mailing list
>>>>>>> Novacc-list at corvair.org
>>>>>>> http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/listinfo/novacc-list
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