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<p>Yes, that piece of shroud (driver's side front, where heater hose
adapter fits) is trapped by the exhaust manifold.</p>
<p>After looking at Clark's catalog and the Junkyard primer, I am
confused as to what a 3880708 head might be, as the two do not
agree.</p>
<p>But, Vernon's pictures in his two emails leads me to believe
3880708 is an open chamber 110 HP head, used on all A.I.R.
engines, typically called smog heads. His is a 1966 110 HP AIR
head, where yours should be a 1969 110 HP AIR head, same thing.</p>
<p>You probably have matching heads. Sounds like time to send your
heads to the ranch like Vernon did. Sad that we have to replace
seats, but going with all new deep seats is the current best way
to keep your car on the road without worrying about dropped valve
seats.<br>
</p>
<p>Frank<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/5/2017 6:37 PM, Dan Weiss via
Novacc-list wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:sPdy1u00x4cttDi01Pe5W7" type="cite">
<div>
<div>Passenger head ID number ends in 0708 and checks with the
numbers Bob provided.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Driver's head ID remains elusive. Not on front vertical
edge. Removed heater shroud and on the bottom horizontal
edge. Tried to remove the housing for the left heater hose but
looks like it is part of the tranny housing. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So either I won't know the bad head's ID number until it
comes off, or if it is supposed to be hidden in the back under
the heater shroud (as one person suggested to me), then it may
not be the correct head.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dan</div>
</div>
<div class="elided-text">On Mar 4, 2017 11:20 AM, Dan Weiss via
Novacc-list <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:novacc-list@corvair.org"><novacc-list@corvair.org></a> wrote:<br
type="attribution">
<blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="black" size="2">Bob,
</font>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Had to drive it with the knock about two miles when it
happened, and I am not running it since. I fished around
the cylinder and couldn't find or hear anything that seemed
to be laying in the cylinder, but I am sure that this could
be misleading.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will check on the head numbers and get back. Thanks.<br>
<br>
Frank,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Didn't know about the difference in ignition systems and
pulling a plug wire. Thanks for that. Guess I should have
pulled the coil wire to the distributor when I cranked the
engine for the compression test.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When you refer to deep seats being costly, is this the
proper repair to the valve seats? Cost? Probably best to do
all on the head since it is out. Thanks.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bryan,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Understand now from the comments from all three of you
that it is important to know what heads are on there since
there were differences in the late models, which I did not
know, and it is necessary to confirm which ones are on
there.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Does using a probe on the wire and grounding the cylinder
reroute the charge from the distributor to ground to prevent
spark? Thanks.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am learning so much. Thanks.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Remember "Young men try to outdo. Middle aged men try to
make do. Mature men help others to do."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dan</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div style="font-family:'arial' ,
'helvetica';font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Bob Marshall via Novacc-list
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:novacc-list@corvair.org"><novacc-list@corvair.org></a><br>
To: novacc-list <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:novacc-list@corvair.org"><novacc-list@corvair.org></a><br>
Cc: ram0672 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ram0672@verizon.net"><ram0672@verizon.net></a><br>
Sent: Fri, Mar 3, 2017 5:19 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NoVa-Corvairs] Noob May Need a Good Used
Head<br>
<br>
<div class="elided-text">
<div>
<div style="font-family:'arial';color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0
);font-size:12px">
<div>Just my two cents. <br>
<br>
Keep the old head if it is a 69 part number
3880707/3880708. Damage can be fixed by a shop
that knows how to correctly work on aluminum
heads. <br>
<br>
If it is a valve seat don't run it anymore to
minimize the damage. We had a member that drove
his car about 40 miles after a seat let go and he
now is facing a $5000 rebuild. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div> Bob</div>
<div> </div>
<span
style="font-size:12;font-family:'arial';color:#000000">On
03/03/17, Frank DuVal via Novacc-list<novacc-<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:list@corvair.org">list@corvair.org</a>></span>
wrote:
<div> </div>
<div
style="font-size:12;font-family:'arial';color:#000000">
<div>Where to start.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>69 110 HP originally had open chamber heads.
Different than 64 to 67 design. As Bryan says,
get head numbers. Who knows who did what in 40
years. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All used heads are unknown, unless YOU know
how they were used for the last 50 years.
Clarks "good" just means seats, etc. are still
there. They have no history usually. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, deep seats cost money, but better than
doing it again later with piston damage. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The electronics of electronic ignition do not
like the spikes created when spark plug wires
are remov d with the engine running. Good chance
of replacing the electronics when you do that.
Spark plug wire pulling great diagnosis
technique with points system, bad with
electronics. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Turn engine either way. But camshaft turns
half with each crankshaft rotation (four stroke
engine). So just because timing mark is on 0
does not mean cylinder is on compression
stroke. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Frank DuVal</div>
<div><br>
On Mar 3, 2017, at 1:09 PM, Dan Weiss via
Novacc-list <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:novacc-list@corvair.org">novacc-list@corvair.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
color="black" size="2">Bryan,</font>
<div><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
color="black" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
<div>Thank you for your input. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If I understand your first point, I may
need to rotate the nut on the harmonic
balancer until the rotor comes back around
to the position for the second cylinder.
Had not thought of that. I have been
turning the nut clockwise. Should manual
advancing of the crank be done in only one
direction regardless of which one? I read
somewhere that if you go over where you want
timing marks to meet, you should not go
backward, but make another rotation. I know
that the timing marks are only for cyl #1.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, it has electronic ignition.
Everything in your middle point flew over
my head ;-}, but the above is pretty much
all moot as to diagnostics in this instance
but great for my edification on corvairs. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would be reluctant to go through all
the work with one of "unknown history."
Clarks quoted $150 for good used heads,
which several have said is really high. Any
idea what it should cost to rebuild a head
and where to go? One vendor quoted $1500 to
rebuild both heads. Does "if it ain't
broke, don't fix it" apply to the other
head, or should both be rebuilt at the same
time?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Apologies for all the questions, but
really at the start of the learning curve
with this.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dan</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<div style="font-family:'arial' ,
'helvetica';font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Bryan Blackwell via Novacc-list <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:novacc-list@corvair.org">novacc-list@corvair.org</a>><br>
To: Northern Va Corvair Club <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:novacc-list@corvair.org">novacc-list@corvair.org</a>><br>
Cc: Bryan Blackwell <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bryan@skiblack.com">bryan@skiblack.com</a>><br>
Sent: Fri, Mar 3, 2017 12:21 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NoVa-Corvairs] Noob May Need
a Good Used Head<br>
<br>
Hi Dan,<br>
<br>
A couple of thoughts:<br>
<br>
First, you're right, the head has to come
off. The compression check shows zero. On
the leakdown test, it may just be you had
it on the overlap instead of compression,
don't forget it's two engine revolutions
per cycle.<br>
<br>
One other bit - as I recall you have an
electronic ignition. On those you don't
want to pull plug wires for the test, it's
better to sneak a probe down the boot on
each distributor wire and ground the
cylinders one at a time.<br>
<br>
Finally, I've reached the point that I
don't trust used unknown history heads.
IMHO, if the head is coming off, I want to
put a rebuilt one with fresh seats in it's
place. In any case, you should verify
which casting numbers are on the engine so
both sides match.<br>
<br>
--Bryan<br>
<br>
> On Mar 3, 2017, at 12:04 AM, Dan
Weiss via Novacc-list <novacc-<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:list@corvair.org">list@corvair.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Pulling one plug wire at a time,
removing the wire for #2 Cyl produced no
difference, so it seemed the problem was
the same cylinder the Ranch found in need
of some attention.<br>
> <br>
> Compression test was done on each
cylinder. First test was without having
throttle open (forgot about that); second
test was with throttle open for each
cylinder. Open throttle produced a range
of 2 to 7 additional PSI of compression.<br>
> <br>
> Here are readings:<br>
> <br>
> CYLINDER FIRST TEST SECOND TEST<br>
> 2 0 0<br>
> 4 143 145<br>
> 6 150 157<br>
> 1 140 143<br>
> 3 157 164 <br>
> 5 151 156<br>
> <br>
> Onto the leak down test.<br>
> <br>
> Did the best I could to get cyl #2 to
TDC by aligning the rotor under the cap
with the #2 contact. First attempts read
close to 100%. Further adjustment seemed
to tighten things up and tests
consistently read right on the yellow and
red section divider at about 71% cylinder
leakage. I made sure to turn the regulator
so the gauge read 0% before connecting it
to the cylinder. The gauge immediately
read 71% leakage and stayed right there. I
turned the regulator clockwise to allow
for airflow from the compressor, and the
air was flowing out the exhaust pipe. What
surprised me was that if I did achieve
TDC, with the air leaking out the exhaust,
I thought the rocker arm in the pic would
have been with the exhaust valve, but as
you all already know, that is the intake
valve.<br>
> <br>
> Does it seem that the leak down test
was done correctly? <br>
> <br>
> Obviously, regardless of the leak
down test, the head has to come off to be
replaced or repaired. I plan to pull the
valve cover off to see what may be going
on under there tomorrow or Saturday..<br>
> <br>
<br>
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