[SCG] RE: 1964 Accessory codes - analysis of current data

Thu Aug 16 00:17:55 EDT 2007

Absolutely-thanks! We have seen this already with some of the '65 LOS
codes-they were redundant for Corvair but needed for other cars produced
there.

--Kent

From: chevrobilia at juno.com [mailto:chevrobilia at juno.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:42 PM
To: kentsu at corvairkid.com
Cc: chevrobilia at juno.com; whubbell at umich.edu; corsa at comcast.net;
scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
Subject: RE: 1964 Accessory codes - analysis of current data

I think it must have been primarily because of sales volume, determined by
the number of rear antenna orders in '64. Also, corporate rationalizing
affected RPOs. This was a very important factor in many decisions at the
time and the primary example was Chevy's switch to letter/digit RPOs in '63
replacing their former 3-digit RPOs. The other divisions had already been
using the letter/digits prior to '63. This was just one effort which helped
make Chevy harder to split off of GM. 

Factors affecting the higher volume GM car lines affected Corvair RPOs, like
the ol' dog wagging its tail. For example, Chevelle also relied on defining
radio RPOs solely with exception codes rather than using U73 as a separate
and distinct option code for rear antennae in 64, as opposed to the BOP
intermediates which were already using U73. This would cause havoc (and less
corporate commonality) at plants which built all four cars. Which was the
case at Fremont in '64.

It often pays to look outside the Corvair's realm, and even outside of
Chevy's, for a better understanding of RPOs, ordering and distribution. 

Dave

Dave

-- "Kent Sullivan" <kentsu at corvairkid.com> wrote:

Yes, definitely. So do you know why the rear antenna became an
honest-to-goodness RPO in '65 (U73)? I thought it might be due to the base
radio finally being standard equipment but that didn't happen until 1966.

Thanks!

From: chevrobilia at juno.com [mailto:chevrobilia at juno.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:37 PM
To: kentsu at corvairkid.com
Cc: whubbell at umich.edu; corsa at comcast.net; scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
Subject: RE: 1964 Accessory codes - analysis of current data

Hi,

Paul is pretty close. All antennae for all Chevies were stowed (I won't say
"thrown") in the trunk at the assembly plants to prevent getting broken off
or stolen during transport, Same went for hub caps and wheel covers. The
installation instructions are in the assy. manual because the plants needed
to prep show jobs and special cars occasionally, and would have to install
the antenna off-line.

There were 3 basic Corvair radio, antenna & speaker RPOs in 64: U60, manual
radio; U63 pushbutton radio and Z02 pushbutton radio and rear speaker. These
were further broken down into 6 different RPOs by use of RPO Exception
Codes, as indicated on orders for bodies sent to Fisher and window stickers,
car shippers and invoices. That's how Fisher knew if a car was to have a
rear antenna so they could install the Chevy-furnished,
longer cable. 

Chevy and all GM car divisions traditionally installed radio parts except
when they'd have to remove a bunch of Fisher parts to install them. In that
case it was cheaper to pay Fisher to do the operation.

It's important to remember that exception codes define an option and create
a new, separate option. A hypothetical RPO U63AB, for example, is just as
much a separate, distinct, and trackable RPO as U63AC would be. Each RPO
essentially refers to a distinct list of parts for that particular option,
which makes it a function of purchasing, sales and production control. I
could probably come up with most of these exception codes from my sticker
and car shipper files but that's a project for another day!

For build sheets, and as far as dealers were concerned, the six RPOs were
defined by the factory order form Column Code. For 64, all radios were
ordered under Column 44, and on Corvair order forms there were six different
44 columns the dealer could check:   

   44-A = Manual Radio & front Ant (U60)

   44-B = Manual & Rear Ant (U60)

   44-C = PB Radio & Front Ant (U63)

   44-D = PB & Rear Ant (U63) 

   44-E = PB, Front Ant & Rear Speaker (Z02)

   44-F = PB, Rear Ant & Rear Speaker (Z-02)

Hope this helps,

Dave 
-- "Kent Sullivan" <kentsu at corvairkid.com> wrote:

Very interesting. I chatted with Paul Steinberg today. He is pretty
knowledgeable about '64s. He wondered if the lack of RPO for this had to do
with the antenna being shipped partially assembled, to help prevent breakage
during shipment? He recalls the rear antenna on his folks' '59 Chevy being
in the backseat when it arrived at the dealer.

--Kent

From: Bill Hubbell [mailto:whubbell at umich.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:23 PM
To: 'Kent Sullivan'; chevrobilia at juno.com; corsa at comcast.net
Subject: RE: 1964 Accessory codes - analysis of current data

No, they most certainly did not!  Sorry, Kent, I should have told you - the
'64 assembly manual also has pages for installing the front antenna - same
RPO numbers U60 and U63 - I just sent you the rear antenna pages.  It is
obvious that Fisher installed the wire for the rear antenna, but the front
antenna pages make it clear that Chevy installed the front antenna.  I do
not know how they knew which cars should have which antennas, other than
Fisher code 2S and whatever was on the Chevy build sheet.  It might help if
we could find a build sheet for a 64 2S car.

Bill

  _____  

From: Kent Sullivan [mailto:kentsu at corvairkid.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:56 AM
To: chevrobilia at juno.com; corsa at comcast.net
Cc: whubbell at umich.edu
Subject: RE: 1964 Accessory codes - analysis of current data

Hi again,

Please see the attached pages that Bill scanned and sent. The rear antenna
installation is clearly documented in the '64 assembly manual but it does
not have its own RPO. Instead, at the bottom of each page are RPO U60 & U63.
Does this mean that all radio installations included a rear antenna in '64?!

--Kent

From: Kent Sullivan [mailto:kentsu at corvairkid.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:12 PM
To: 'chevrobilia at juno.com'; 'corsa at comcast.net'
Cc: 'whubbell at umich.edu'
Subject: RE: 1964 Accessory codes - analysis of current data

Interesting issue: There appears to have been a rear antenna available from
the factory in '64 since Bill says he has seen several cars with S in group
2 (which is the code for this in '65-7) and all of those cars have a rear
antenna yet there is no RPO listed for this in either the Chevy engineering
specs that Bill has a copy of or in the RPO index in the assembly manual.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

From: chevrobilia at juno.com [mailto:chevrobilia at juno.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 10:06 PM
To: whubbell at umich.edu
Cc: chevrobilia at juno.com; kentsu at corvairkid.com; corsa at comcast.net
Subject: RE: 1964 Accessory codes - analysis of current data

PS: Beware, as Dave Trull and I've discussed, of 700 sedans with dealer
installed rear armrests, which of course will have no body plate code for
them.

Dave

-- "Bill Hubbell" <whubbell at umich.edu> wrote:

Interesting.  Well, we found one 700 with armrests; could there be a car out
there with A20 yet to find?

Dave, do you have any way of telling which body styles ordered which
options?

It is interesting that both A20 and A37 were continued through January.  I
wonder why A20 would be available after Jan 1.  Do you suppose there was a
lag period in implementation?

Bill

  _____  

From: chevrobilia at juno.com [mailto:chevrobilia at juno.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 4:25 AM
To: kentsu at corvairkid.com
Cc: whubbell at umich.edu; corsa at comcast.net; chevrobilia at juno.com
Subject: RE: 1964 Accessory codes - analysis of current data

551 '64 Vairs with A20, with the notation that it was discontinued in 2/64.
That makes it slightly more popular than armrests in 700 sedans.

Dave 

-- "Kent Sullivan" <kentsu at corvairkid.com> wrote:

Dave,

Do you have any RPO production figures for 1964? We have never seen a code
in group 5 for early '64 cars other than V, so it makes me think that very
few cars were equipped with RPO A20. If we knew how many it would help us
know how likely we are to ever see one.

Thanks.

From: Bill Hubbell [mailto:whubbell at umich.edu] 
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 10:50 AM
To: Dave Trull; Kent Sullivan; Dave Newell
Subject: RE: 1964 Accessory codes - analysis of current data

Further digging through e-mails produced this note from Kent, which should
explain why we are seeing 5V codes through the end of Jan 1964

Therefore

.  5V = RPO A37 "Custom Deluxe Front left and fight seat belts color-keyed
to the interior with matching boots on the ends. The full range of colors
was black, blue, red, white with red boot, white with aqua boot, fawn,
green, aqua, and saddle." Available from start of '64 model year through Jan
31, 1964

.  5W = RPO A49 same as above, plus retractors, became available Jan 1, 1964

.  5O = RPO A62, Seat Belt Delete, became available Jan 1, 1964

.  5? = RPO A20, Standard seat belts, "available in black, blue, red, and
fawn with no boots on the ends. This belt had a plain plastic buckle with no
emblem", available from about Oct 1 through Dec 31, 1963.

I am a bit slow, but I catch on eventually (grin) - thanks, Kent!  (Man,
it's like everything you guys wrote last year is finally connecting with my
brain)

Bill

  _____  

From: Kent Sullivan [mailto:kentsu at corvairkid.com] 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 8:19 PM
To: chevrobilia at juno.com; corsa at comcast.net
Cc: whubbell at umich.edu
Subject: RE: 64 vin code

Cool. I have in my notes that 5O is indeed seat belt delete for 1964 but I
forget what the source of confirmation is.

RE: 5V (RPO A37) and 5W (RPO A49), see
http://www.corvairkid.com/64fcnote.htm. Dave N. provided most of the info
there about seat belts. To review:

Plain black front seat belts became standard equipment on January 1, 1964.
At this time:

.         RPO A20 was discontinued. The plain belt sold as standard
equipment came only in black.

.         RPO A62 became available. This option deleted the seat belts that
were now installed as standard equipment.

.         RPO A37 was cancelled for order scheduling as of February 1, 1964.
Any orders on hand or received at the zones as of this date with RPO A37
were changed to RPO A49. There could have been some cars built with RPO A37
after February 1, whose orders had already been scheduled and sent to the
assembly plants. But after February 1, the only Custom Deluxe belts that
could be ordered were RPO A49, with retractors.

The body tags Dave has coincide with this info.

--Kent

  _____  

From: Bill Hubbell [mailto:whubbell at umich.edu] 
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 1:05 PM
To: 'whubbell at umich.edu'; Dave Trull; Kent Sullivan; Dave Newell
Subject: RE: 1964 Accessory codes - analysis of current data

Hold the phone!  I just reviewed the tags that Kent sent me from Mike McKeel
again and look at this one!  It has a 1L code!  

Kent, we need to contact Mike and confirm that this 700 has a folding seat!

Bill

  _____  

From: Bill Hubbell [mailto:whubbell at umich.edu] 
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:38 PM
To: Dave Trull; Kent Sullivan; Dave Newell
Subject: 1964 Accessory codes - analysis of current data

Hey guys, I am really sorry it took me so long to follow-up on this car - I
know how important it is to find one with both heater delete and seatbelt
delete codes.  I also know that it was Dave T who originally discovered this
car with his post on Corvair Central.

All I can offer by way of explanation is that the e-mails containing the
full body tag and VIN information were received while I was on a trip to
Muskegon to look in on my folks.  That was a rough period of time for me - I
spent most of the weekend cleaning my parent's house and going over their
papers, etc.  Obviously I was a little bit overloaded and forgot to
follow-up on this when I got home.

Anyway, it looks like we are closing in on knowing most of the '64 codes.

Here is what we have so far (if you all agree)

1964 Fisher body tags ACC line.   (WR only)

The Letters are listed in groups. Letters following a number is in that
group. The code letters are listed in the order they would appear. Some
letters are in more than one group

First Group (no numeric indicator)

. E  = Tinted windshield and side glass

. D  = Power Top (Manual top standard, no indicator)

. W = Tinted Windshield only 

. ?   = Folding rear seat (coded L in 63, 65-67) None seen yet on '64 tags

2 = Second Group

. M = Powerglide Automatic 

. L  = 4 Speed 

. E  = Air Conditioning 

. P  = Convenience group (2 speed wipers, w/ washer, day/night mirror,
glovebox light, backup lights)

. R  = Rear speaker

. S   = Rear antenna

. H  = Heater Delete (confirmed by Jim's Tag)

3 = Third Group

. C = Padded dash

. A = Rear Armrest (confirmed by Mike McKeel tag)

4 = Fourth Group

. F= convenience group Z13 (not available with 2P but includes all 2P
options plus remote door mirror) 

5 = Fifth Group

. W = Deluxe Seat belts (Seen as early as 01D)  Need 01C tag!

. O  = Seatbelt Delete (4 tags: Jim Kretchman, Norm King, one at CORSA 2007
convention, plus Dave Newell's tag)

.V =  Deluxe seat belts (seen as late as 01B) Need 01C tag!

.?  = Standard seat belts (October 63-Jan '64) (maybe Z?) None seen yet on
'64 tags

There is still work to be done on the Group 5 codes.  It is not exactly
clear what the V code means on January tags, since all cars should have had
front seat belts after Jan 01, 1964, according to Dave Newell's data.  Yet
we are seeing this code up to 01D.  Also, we still have not confirmed the
code for the standard belts prior to Jan '64.

Dave, in an e-mail last year (below) you stated you had a 5V code on a 1D
car - could you sent me the photo or details of that tag?  I have only one
other 01D tag and it appears to have a 5W code - it seems odd that both
codes co-existed at the same time, but if so, we need to explain why.

Could you send the details for the 50 code you have as well?

Finally, I have NO information on LOS (Los Angeles) tags - do we have any
data?

Bill

  _____  

From: chevrobilia at juno.com [mailto:chevrobilia at juno.com] 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 4:34 PM
To: corsa at comcast.net
Cc: kentsu at corvairkid.com; whubbell at umich.edu
Subject: Re: 64 vin code

Hi,

Glad you thought of those missing codes.

I have a 5O on a 769, though know nothing about the car.

But I don't have any of the other codes you brought up for '64.

BTW, re 5V and 5W: 

I have a 5V on a 1B 627

And a 5V on a 1D 927

My first 5W is a 2B 527

Dave

  _____  

From: Corsa [mailto:corsa at comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:38 PM
To: Kent Sullivan; chevrobilia at juno.com
Cc: whubbell at umich.edu
Subject: Re: 64 vin code

Kent and Dave N.

Since 5V = (RPO A37) and 5W = (RPO A49) are both deluxe belts, have we found
a code for the standard belt (A20), that was optional from Oct 1, 1963 to
Jan 1, 1964? I got this from Kents site for FC's. Does this also apply to
passenger cars?  From what I gathered from the 63 year discussion, Fisher
took over for installation of seat belts at the end of the 63 model run. Is
this correct. If it is, then there should be a code for optional (RPO A20)
seatbelts. Have any other codes been found in this group? I heard there may
be a "Z" code in group 5 but I do not have an example of this code. Maybe
they never coded for this option or it's possible that this was a very rare
option before it became standard.  Something along the lines of the rear
belts on 65's before they became standard in 66. 

Well something to think about

Regards

Dave T. 

  _____  

From: Kent Sullivan [mailto:kentsu at corvairkid.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 8:13 AM
To: 'Corsa'; 'chevrobilia at juno.com'
Cc: 'whubbell at umich.edu'
Subject: RE: 64 vin code

Great question--A20 was available on cars. From what we know, it was
available from about October 1 through about December 31. A good project
would be for someone to look for 1964 cars in this body build range and see
what shows up code-wise in group 5. We should see a code for A37 (assume it
to be 5V, like later in the year), A49 (assume 5W), and I would guess some
sort of code for A20. Should not see a code for deleted belts (5O) during
this time period since no belt was standard equipment until January 1.

--Kent

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