[SCG] [Corsabod] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
Jack Pinard
corvairjack at yahoo.com
Thu Sep 3 15:03:52 EDT 2009
Thanks Larry -
Since the question has been raised, and facts are needed to make a decision, do you have a member on your committee who can research the numbers.
If not, what committee do you suggest?
Thanks,
Jack
Jack Pinard
CORSA Western Division Director
116 E Garden Green, Port Hueneme CA 93041-1926
Cell 805 340-6533
________________________________
From: The Vair Shop <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
To: Jack Pinard <corvairjack at yahoo.com>; whubbell at umich.edu; Mark Corbin <airvair at earthlink.net>; Duanne Luckow <daluckow at aol.com>; CORSA/CPF BoD <corsabod at corvair.org>; Stock Corvair Group <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 11:20:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Corsabod] [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
jack
there is not a handy complied talley sheet of each
conventions concours entries all in place, but the information is all published
in each convention issue of the communique. it would just take somebody with
those communiques and some time to make a single document with the information
you request.
lc
----- Original Message -----
>From: Jack
> Pinard
>To: whubbell at umich.edu ; Larry
> Claypool ; Mark Corbin ; Duanne Luckow ; CORSA/CPF
> BoD ; Stock Corvair Group
>Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:53
> PM
>Subject: Re: [Corsabod] [SCG] Factory
> Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation Awardhistory in CORSA Concours
> 1997-2009
>
>
>To
> all -
>
>Bill makes an observation about number in classes.
>
>Does
> anyone have a breakdown of number of entries by class for recent
> years?
>
>The board will have a difficult time making decisions without
> facts.
>
>Thanks,
>Jack
>
>
>
>
>
> Jack Pinard
>CORSA Western Division
> Director
>
>116 E Garden Green, Port Hueneme CA
> 93041-1926
>Cell 805
> 340-6533
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Bill Hubbell <whubbell at umich.edu>
>To: Larry Claypool <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>; Mark
> Corbin <airvair at earthlink.net>; William J
> Hubbell <whubbell at umich.edu>;
> Duanne Luckow <daluckow at aol.com>;
> CORSA/CPF BoD <corsabod at corvair.org>; Stock Corvair
> Group <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
>Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 9:30:00
> AM
>Subject: Re: [Corsabod]
> [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation Awardhistory in
> CORSA Concours 1997-2009
>
>I do note that in any given year there
> are always a lot more cars in the Street Stock classes than in Factory Stock,
> so there is apparently a larger pool of people at least somewhat interested in
> Stock and I would like to offer them some encouragement to continue. One
> thought I have had is that we might offer some sort of recognition or
> consideration to those folks who get into the "Street Stock" class to
> encourage them to continue to pursue restoration into the Factory Stock"
> classes. I am not certain what form such consideration might take, but I think
> it is an idea worth exploring.
>
>Bill Hubbell
>-----Original
> Message-----
>From: "The Vair Shop" <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
>
>Date:
> Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:17:56
>To: <airvair at earthlink.net>; <whubbell at umich.edu>; Duanne
> Luckow<daluckow at aol.com>; CORSA/CPF
> BoD<corsabod at corvair.org>; Stock
> Corvair Group<scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
>Subject:
> Re: [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation Awardhistory in
> CORSA Concours 1997-2009
>
>
>hi all
>comments in text
> below
>
>
>
>
>> All,
>>
>> My first point that I'd
> like to make it this. I've been concerned for some
>> time about this
> situation, and of a larger associated issue of
>> classification. Part of
> the reason, I believe, for a low turnout in stock
>> cars in concours is
> the fact that classes have been made rather
>> meaningless, with the
> now-current awards system of "gold/silver/bronze"
>> rather than
> "first/second/third" as was the original system. There is now
>> little
> incentive to pursue a "stock" classification, other than for the
>>
> somewhat obscure "Preservation" award. I say "obscure" because there is
>
>> not
>> enough prestige attached to this award to highlight it
> sufficiently.
>
>there is also a number of people who want to restore a
> car to stock,
>regardless of where it places or scores- they just want it
> 'stock'
>
>>
>> As I see it, our choices are to either return to
> the original awards
>> system, or modify the "classification" process to
> reflect the current
>> system. Since the majority seem to prefer the
> current system, the latter
>> should be pursued.
>
>i agree we should
> not go backwards to a X in class system
>
>It's also possible that
> eliminating most classes would
>> re-emphasize the remaining "stock"
> classes.
>
>agreed
>
>>
>> I have previously sent to Duanne
> Luckow a detailed proposal to eliminate
>> all classes except the one(s)
> that would be affected by the Preservation
>> Award. After all,
> classification other than for these elegible classes for
>> that award is
> really a study in futility, and a waste of time and effort.
>> It's a
> usless effort that we could just as well do without, as long as we
>>
> have the present awards system. We could then begin a program to
> emphasize
>> stock cars.
>
>the thought of 2 classes-stock and then
> all others (plus engineering class,
>because those vehicles can't be
> readily equated to full corvair bodied and
>powered cars) has been brought
> up before, and has some merit.
>
>
>>
>> A second point I would
> like to make is that while I would be the last to
>> want modified cars
> to be allowed into stock classes, I also feel that we
>> are possibly
> being a bit too strict with potential stock class cars.
>
>really? in
> comparison to NCRS,porsche, and some other clubs, we are really
>
>loose.
>in classification, we don't do numbers matching checks other
> than obvious
>stuff like engine code and *some* fisher body accessory
> codes. we don't look
>at glass dates, diff or trans numbers. we allow
> radial tires and
>replacement batteries. we have been allowing hardware
> that looks generally
>right but is reproduction stuff without the little
> factory markings. we have
>not been very strick about powder coating. i
> could go on.
>The
>> original rules that I wrote were intended to
> disqualify cars that didn't
>> "appear just as they could have left the
> factory" due to intentional and
>> noticable modifications, but I never
> intended for the rules to be so
>> strict
>> as to all but
> eliminate the stock classes due to lack of "perfect"
>>
> participants.
>
>see above. if we had "perfect" standards, the list would
> be considerbly
>shorter.
>
>If you note the word "appear" in my quote
> above - the intent
>> was to only comply with a cosmetic appearance,
> rather than a "perfect"
>> representation of "pure stock".
>
>right.
> that's why we have been allowing powder coat and clear coat/base coat
>
>finishes, and coating of parts normally left bare as long as it *looks*
>
>stock. if the end product does not look stock, it doesn't make the
> cut.
>
>
>While the latter is a great ideal to shoot
>> for, the
> original intent was to allow the points system to penalize
>> infractions
> to the "perfect" state on a stock class car that was less than
>>
> "perfectly" factory stock.
>>
>> The question we should be asking
> ourselves is whether we are being too
>> critical, and should we "cut
> some slack" with those who are not "letter
>> perfect"?
>
>whether or
> not we are too critical depends on whose standard you are judging
>corsa
> by. are we too critical for some other single marque clubs? my opinion
>is
> definitly not. too crital for aaca? i think we're on the money for them.
>
>too crital for a local town car show? yes.
>so the qustion then goes to
> what standard do you want be? the best? middle
>of the road? or entry level
> ?
>
>I think that we could find some way to preserve our high
>>
> standards, yet encourage entrants rather than frustrate them. Perhaps
> a
>> points penalization system, rather than an outright
> disqualification?
>
>it's not a disqualification from factory stock, they
> weren't in it to begin
>with. people who do not make factory stock
> did not do enough homework.
>it is not easy to restore a car a car to
> factory stock. it costs way more
>money, and takes much more time to do so,
> which is a big factor. and it
>takes alot of reasearch, not just opening up
> clark's catalogue.
>and it's much harder on a 'common' car like a corvair
> where many of the
>these cars were simply transportation back when they
> new, and many
>modifications were made in the course of regular service and
> repairs. and
>*especially*on a corvair because most service
> facilities did not like or
>undestand these cars.
>
>> Something to
> think about...
>
>i agree
>
>
>>
>> -Mark
> Corbin
>>
>lc
>
>>
>>> [Original Message]
>>>
> From: Bill Hubbell <whubbell at cox.net>
>>> To:
> Larry Claypool <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>; Duanne
> Luckow
>> <daluckow at aol.com>; CORSA/CPF BoD
> <corsabod at corvair.org>; Stock
> Corvair
>> Group <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
>>>
> Date: 9/3/2009 12:05:53 AM
>>> Subject: [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair
> Entries and Stock Preservation
>> Awardhistory in CORSA Concours
> 1997-2009
>>>
>>> To:
>>>
>>> Larry Claypool,
> CORSA Concours Classification Chairman
>>>
>>> Duanne Luckow,
> CORSA Concours Chair
>>>
>>> CORSA Board of
> Directors
>>>
>>> Stock Corvair
> Group
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> Gentleman,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Attached is a
> summary of all cars entered into the two CORSA Concours
>>> Factory
> Stock classes since the development of the Stock Preservation
>>
> Award
>>> in 1997. Although we have had some great success with
> recent Factory
>> Stock
>>> Restored entries also winning the
> Mitchell Award, the fact remains that
>>> participation in the Factory
> Stock Classes remains very low. Please
>> review
>>> this
> information with an eye towards answering the question of what, if
>>>
> anything, we can do to encourage and improve Factory Stock
> participation
>> at
>>> the Concours
> level.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank
> you
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill
> Hubbell
>>>
>>> President, Stock Corvair
> Group
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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