[SCG] [Corsabod] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and StockPreservation Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
Jack Pinard
corvairjack at yahoo.com
Fri Sep 4 14:43:42 EDT 2009
Jack Pinard
CORSA Western Division Director
116 E Garden Green, Port Hueneme CA 93041-1926
Cell 805 340-6533
________________________________
From: dal <daluckow at aol.com>
To: flat6vair at comcast.net; whubbell at umich.edu; vairshop at sbcglobal.net; airvair at earthlink.net; corsabod at corvair.org; scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 11:21:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Corsabod] [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and StockPreservation Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
Hi everyone,
Many emails have been active today and I have read all of them now. Here is my 2 cents worth. Classes have been reduced as Tim has mentioned. If I had a magic wand, the only Corvairs I wish to look at closely and truly admire are Factory stock restored or original cars. I think Street stock is a class for most and would highly encourage this class as both my 1965 cars fit and remain in this category with updating.
Bottom line: It is too darn hard to find the original or NOS parts in this day and age. If one does, the price is very expensive to purchase. Most all the electrical parts are made overseas and I find they fail, even in Delco boxes. Distributor caps, points, plugs, starter solenoids, The best way I have found to do this correctly is to purchase an original car from the original owner or buy one that has already been restored from an elder or retiring Corvair owner like I have done. Restoring a car in today's priced market is for the wealthy and wise who live and breathe cars 24/7. (Jay Leno's rampside) A hobbyist has no chance as in years past.. A friend recently purchased a 1966 pilot Corsa turbo convertible that is all original with 49K miles. Best rust free and clean car I have ever witnessed. Price- 18K. If I can emphasize a lesson here it is to find and search out the owners of the past who had the good Corvairs in Corsa. The aging
members are tired and many
do not communicate by email or Internet. Please do not encourage someone to buy rusted out or damaged Corvair for a few hundred dollars. They will have to have a Jay Leno checkbook.
I want to see more FS, SS or original cars in the concours. I know how much work goes into all aspects and respect anyone that takes on the challenge. Bill H, you worked your tail off in Jacksonville to get the correct bolts for your sedan. You did it on time and scored very well. I thank you for making it right. How else would you have known? It is all a learning process. I started at the bottom in 1993 and certainly do NOT know it all. Each convention brings more knowledge to my base, mostly from the owners themselves. These emails are great to share ideas and make a plan to keep the Corvair and the owner active in the Corsa Concours. Keep the positive flow going.
Cheers, Duanne
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 9/3/2009 at 5:59 PM tim mahler wrote:
>Thank Bill for assisting. I know how important this issue is to you.
>
>Everyone, Please note that board just approved at the Annual board meeting
>changes to the Concours rules that include a REDUCTION (empahasis) in the
>number of classes. Not to the level described in these emails, but a
>reduction none-the-less.
>
>This included the elimination of Speciality class which my beloved Fitch
>Sprints were classified. (i'm ok with that, a Fitch Sprint is neither
>Factory nor street stock nor should it be)
>
>Factory Stock (sub divided to Original and Restored)
>Street Stock
>Improved (includes Sprints and Yenkos
>and
>Engineering (Cords, V8s, dune buggies and Ultravans
>
>
>So some effort HAS already been made to place more emphasis on STOCK
>classifications.
>
>I do think Bill's thought on Street stock recognition has merit. It does
>not need to be a separate award. It could be a Best Street Stock decal
>applied to the trophy the participant is receiving. Bob Dunahugh is
>proposing something similar for autocross.
>
>tim mahler
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill Hubbell" <whubbell at umich.edu>
>To: "Larry Claypool" <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>; "Mark Corbin"
><airvair at earthlink.net>; "William J Hubbell" <whubbell at umich.edu>; "Duanne
>Luckow" <daluckow at aol.com>; "CORSA/CPF BoD" <corsabod at corvair.org>; "Stock
>Corvair Group" <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
>Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:30 AM
>Subject: Re: [Corsabod] [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and
>StockPreservation Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
>
>
>>I do note that in any given year there are always a lot more cars in the
>>Street Stock classes than in Factory Stock, so there is apparently a
>larger
>>pool of people at least somewhat interested in Stock and I would like to
>>offer them some encouragement to continue. One thought I have had is
>that
>>we might offer some sort of recognition or consideration to those folks
>who
>>get into the "Street Stock" class to encourage them to continue to pursue
>>restoration into the Factory Stock" classes. I am not certain what form
>>such consideration might take, but I think it is an idea worth exploring.
>>
>> Bill Hubbell
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "The Vair Shop" <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:17:56
>> To: <airvair at earthlink.net>; <whubbell at umich.edu>; Duanne
>> Luckow<daluckow at aol.com>; CORSA/CPF BoD<corsabod at corvair.org>; Stock
>> Corvair Group<scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
>> Subject: Re: [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation
>> Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
>>
>>
>> hi all
>> comments in text below
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> My first point that I'd like to make it this. I've been concerned for
>>> some
>>> time about this situation, and of a larger associated issue of
>>> classification. Part of the reason, I believe, for a low turnout in
>stock
>>> cars in concours is the fact that classes have been made rather
>>> meaningless, with the now-current awards system of "gold/silver/bronze"
>>> rather than "first/second/third" as was the original system. There is
>now
>>> little incentive to pursue a "stock" classification, other than for the
>>> somewhat obscure "Preservation" award. I say "obscure" because there is
>>> not
>>> enough prestige attached to this award to highlight it sufficiently.
>>
>> there is also a number of people who want to restore a car to stock,
>> regardless of where it places or scores- they just want it 'stock'
>>
>>>
>>> As I see it, our choices are to either return to the original awards
>>> system, or modify the "classification" process to reflect the current
>>> system. Since the majority seem to prefer the current system, the latter
>>> should be pursued.
>>
>> i agree we should not go backwards to a X in class system
>>
>> It's also possible that eliminating most classes would
>>> re-emphasize the remaining "stock" classes.
>>
>> agreed
>>
>>>
>>> I have previously sent to Duanne Luckow a detailed proposal to eliminate
>>> all classes except the one(s) that would be affected by the Preservation
>>> Award. After all, classification other than for these elegible classes
>>> for
>>> that award is really a study in futility, and a waste of time and
>effort.
>>> It's a usless effort that we could just as well do without, as long as
>we
>>> have the present awards system. We could then begin a program to
>>> emphasize
>>> stock cars.
>>
>> the thought of 2 classes-stock and then all others (plus engineering
>> class,
>> because those vehicles can't be readily equated to full corvair bodied
>and
>> powered cars) has been brought up before, and has some merit.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> A second point I would like to make is that while I would be the last to
>>> want modified cars to be allowed into stock classes, I also feel that we
>>> are possibly being a bit too strict with potential stock class cars.
>>
>> really? in comparison to NCRS,porsche, and some other clubs, we are
>really
>> loose.
>> in classification, we don't do numbers matching checks other than obvious
>> stuff like engine code and *some* fisher body accessory codes. we don't
>> look
>> at glass dates, diff or trans numbers. we allow radial tires and
>> replacement batteries. we have been allowing hardware that looks
>generally
>> right but is reproduction stuff without the little factory markings. we
>> have
>> not been very strick about powder coating. i could go on.
>> The
>>> original rules that I wrote were intended to disqualify cars that didn't
>>> "appear just as they could have left the factory" due to intentional and
>>> noticable modifications, but I never intended for the rules to be so
>>> strict
>>> as to all but eliminate the stock classes due to lack of "perfect"
>>> participants.
>>
>> see above. if we had "perfect" standards, the list would be considerbly
>> shorter.
>>
>> If you note the word "appear" in my quote above - the intent
>>> was to only comply with a cosmetic appearance, rather than a "perfect"
>>> representation of "pure stock".
>>
>> right. that's why we have been allowing powder coat and clear coat/base
>> coat
>> finishes, and coating of parts normally left bare as long as it *looks*
>> stock. if the end product does not look stock, it doesn't make the cut.
>>
>>
>> While the latter is a great ideal to shoot
>>> for, the original intent was to allow the points system to penalize
>>> infractions to the "perfect" state on a stock class car that was less
>>> than
>>> "perfectly" factory stock.
>>>
>>> The question we should be asking ourselves is whether we are being too
>>> critical, and should we "cut some slack" with those who are not "letter
>>> perfect"?
>>
>> whether or not we are too critical depends on whose standard you are
>> judging
>> corsa by. are we too critical for some other single marque clubs? my
>> opinion
>> is definitly not. too crital for aaca? i think we're on the money for
>> them.
>> too crital for a local town car show? yes.
>> so the qustion then goes to what standard do you want be? the best?
>middle
>> of the road? or entry level ?
>>
>> I think that we could find some way to preserve our high
>>> standards, yet encourage entrants rather than frustrate them. Perhaps a
>>> points penalization system, rather than an outright disqualification?
>>
>> it's not a disqualification from factory stock, they weren't in it to
>> begin
>> with. people who do not make factory stock did not do enough homework.
>> it is not easy to restore a car a car to factory stock. it costs way more
>> money, and takes much more time to do so, which is a big factor. and it
>> takes alot of reasearch, not just opening up clark's catalogue.
>> and it's much harder on a 'common' car like a corvair where many of the
>> these cars were simply transportation back when they new, and many
>> modifications were made in the course of regular service and repairs.
>and
>> *especially*on a corvair because most service facilities did not like or
>> undestand these cars.
>>
>>> Something to think about...
>>
>> i agree
>>
>>
>>>
>>> -Mark Corbin
>>>
>> lc
>>
>>>
>>>> [Original Message]
>>>> From: Bill Hubbell <whubbell at cox.net>
>>>> To: Larry Claypool <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>; Duanne Luckow
>>> <daluckow at aol.com>; CORSA/CPF BoD <corsabod at corvair.org>; Stock Corvair
>>> Group <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
>>>> Date: 9/3/2009 12:05:53 AM
>>>> Subject: [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation
>>> Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
>>>>
>>>> To:
>>>>
>>>> Larry Claypool, CORSA Concours Classification Chairman
>>>>
>>>> Duanne Luckow, CORSA Concours Chair
>>>>
>>>> CORSA Board of Directors
>>>>
>>>> Stock Corvair Group
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gentleman,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Attached is a summary of all cars entered into the two CORSA Concours
>>>> Factory Stock classes since the development of the Stock Preservation
>>> Award
>>>> in 1997. Although we have had some great success with recent Factory
>>> Stock
>>>> Restored entries also winning the Mitchell Award, the fact remains that
>>>> participation in the Factory Stock Classes remains very low. Please
>>> review
>>>> this information with an eye towards answering the question of what, if
>>>> anything, we can do to encourage and improve Factory Stock
>participation
>>> at
>>>> the Concours level.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill Hubbell
>>>>
>>>> President, Stock Corvair Group
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Corsabod mailing list
>> Corsabod at tiger.skiblack.com
>> http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/listinfo/corsabod
>
>
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