[SCG] [Corsabod] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
Jack Pinard
corvairjack at yahoo.com
Fri Sep 4 15:10:11 EDT 2009
Thank you Larry for responding.
You missed the mail from a volunteer who is being sent back issues of Communique' to tally entries.
I hope that accurate counts will be kept in the future for the benefit of event organizers and the board.
Regards,
Jack
Jack Pinard
CORSA Western Division Director
116 E Garden Green, Port Hueneme CA 93041-1926
Cell 805 340-6533
________________________________
From: The Vair Shop <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
To: Jack Pinard <corvairjack at yahoo.com>; whubbell at umich.edu; Mark Corbin <airvair at earthlink.net>; Duanne Luckow <daluckow at aol.com>; CORSA/CPF BoD <corsabod at corvair.org>; Stock Corvair Group <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2009 7:42:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Corsabod] [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
hi all
i do not have the time to reasearch the information
jack requests. any volunteers?
lc
----- Original Message -----
>From: Jack
> Pinard
>To: The Vair Shop ; whubbell at umich.edu ; Mark
> Corbin ; Duanne
> Luckow ; CORSA/CPF BoD ; Stock Corvair Group
>Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:03
> PM
>Subject: Re: [Corsabod] [SCG] Factory
> Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation Awardhistory in CORSA Concours
> 1997-2009
>
>
>Thanks
> Larry -
>Since the question has been raised, and facts are needed to make a
> decision, do you have a member on your committee who can research the
> numbers.
>If not, what committee do you suggest?
>Thanks,
>Jack
>
>
> Jack Pinard
>CORSA Western Division
> Director
>
>116 E Garden Green, Port Hueneme CA
> 93041-1926
>Cell 805
> 340-6533
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: The Vair Shop <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
>To: Jack Pinard <corvairjack at yahoo.com>; whubbell at umich.edu; Mark Corbin <airvair at earthlink.net>; Duanne
> Luckow <daluckow at aol.com>;
> CORSA/CPF BoD <corsabod at corvair.org>; Stock Corvair
> Group <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
>Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009
> 11:20:11 AM
>Subject: Re:
> [Corsabod] [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation
> Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
>
> >
>jack
> there is not a handy complied talley sheet of each
> conventions concours entries all in place, but the information is all
> published in each convention issue of the communique. it would just take
> somebody with those communiques and some time to make a single document with
> the information you request.
>lc
>-----
>> Original Message -----
>>From: Jack
>> Pinard
>>To: whubbell at umich.edu ;
>> Larry
>> Claypool ; Mark Corbin ; Duanne Luckow ; CORSA/CPF BoD ; Stock Corvair Group
>>Sent: >> Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:53 PM
>>Subject: >> Re: [Corsabod] [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation
>> Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
>>
>>
>>To
>> all -
>>
>>Bill makes an observation about number in classes.
>>
>>Does
>> anyone have a breakdown of number of entries by class for recent
>> years?
>>
>>The board will have a difficult time making decisions without
>> facts.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Jack
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack Pinard
>>CORSA Western Division
>> Director
>>
>>116 E Garden Green, Port Hueneme CA 93041-1926
>>
>>Cell 805
>> 340-6533
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: Bill Hubbell <whubbell at umich.edu>
>>To: Larry Claypool <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>; Mark
>> Corbin <airvair at earthlink.net>;
>> William J Hubbell <whubbell at umich.edu>; Duanne
>> Luckow <daluckow at aol.com>; CORSA/CPF BoD
>> <corsabod at corvair.org>; Stock
>> Corvair Group <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009
>> 9:30:00 AM
>>Subject: Re:
>> [Corsabod] [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation
>> Awardhistory in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
>>
>>I do note that in any
>> given year there are always a lot more cars in the Street Stock classes than
>> in Factory Stock, so there is apparently a larger pool of people at least
>> somewhat interested in Stock and I would like to offer them some
>> encouragement to continue. One thought I have had is that we might
>> offer some sort of recognition or consideration to those folks who get into
>> the "Street Stock" class to encourage them to continue to pursue restoration
>> into the Factory Stock" classes. I am not certain what form such
>> consideration might take, but I think it is an idea worth exploring.
>>
>>
>>Bill Hubbell
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "The Vair Shop"
>> <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
>>
>>Date:
>> Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:17:56
>>To: <airvair at earthlink.net>; <whubbell at umich.edu>; Duanne
>> Luckow<daluckow at aol.com>; CORSA/CPF
>> BoD<corsabod at corvair.org>; Stock
>> Corvair Group<scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
>>Subject:
>> Re: [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and Stock Preservation Awardhistory
>> in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
>>
>>
>>hi all
>>comments in text
>> below
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> My first point that I'd
>> like to make it this. I've been concerned for some
>>> time about this
>> situation, and of a larger associated issue of
>>> classification. Part
>> of the reason, I believe, for a low turnout in stock
>>> cars in
>> concours is the fact that classes have been made rather
>>> meaningless,
>> with the now-current awards system of "gold/silver/bronze"
>>> rather
>> than "first/second/third" as was the original system. There is now
>>>
>> little incentive to pursue a "stock" classification, other than for
>> the
>>> somewhat obscure "Preservation" award. I say "obscure" because
>> there is
>>> not
>>> enough prestige attached to this award to
>> highlight it sufficiently.
>>
>>there is also a number of people who want
>> to restore a car to stock,
>>regardless of where it places or scores- they
>> just want it 'stock'
>>
>>>
>>> As I see it, our choices are to
>> either return to the original awards
>>> system, or modify the
>> "classification" process to reflect the current
>>> system. Since the
>> majority seem to prefer the current system, the latter
>>> should be
>> pursued.
>>
>>i agree we should not go backwards to a X in class
>> system
>>
>>It's also possible that eliminating most classes would
>>>
>> re-emphasize the remaining "stock"
>> classes.
>>
>>agreed
>>
>>>
>>> I have previously sent to Duanne
>> Luckow a detailed proposal to eliminate
>>> all classes except the
>> one(s) that would be affected by the Preservation
>>> Award. After all,
>> classification other than for these elegible classes for
>>> that award
>> is really a study in futility, and a waste of time and effort.
>>> It's
>> a usless effort that we could just as well do without, as long as we
>>>
>> have the present awards system. We could then begin a program to
>> emphasize
>>> stock cars.
>>
>>the thought of 2 classes-stock and then
>> all others (plus engineering class,
>>because those vehicles can't be
>> readily equated to full corvair bodied and
>>powered cars) has been
>> brought up before, and has some merit.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> A second
>> point I would like to make is that while I would be the last to
>>> want
>> modified cars to be allowed into stock classes, I also feel that we
>>>
>> are possibly being a bit too strict with potential stock class
>> cars.
>>
>>really? in comparison to NCRS,porsche, and some other clubs, we
>> are really
>>loose.
>>in classification, we don't do numbers matching
>> checks other than obvious
>>stuff like engine code and *some* fisher body
>> accessory codes. we don't look
>>at glass dates, diff or trans
>> numbers. we allow radial tires and
>>replacement batteries. we have been
>> allowing hardware that looks generally
>>right but is reproduction stuff
>> without the little factory markings. we have
>>not been very strick about
>> powder coating. i could go on.
>>The
>>> original rules that I wrote
>> were intended to disqualify cars that didn't
>>> "appear just as they
>> could have left the factory" due to intentional and
>>> noticable
>> modifications, but I never intended for the rules to be so
>>>
>> strict
>>> as to all but eliminate the stock classes due to lack of
>> "perfect"
>>> participants.
>>
>>see above. if we had "perfect"
>> standards, the list would be considerbly
>>shorter.
>>
>>If you note the
>> word "appear" in my quote above - the intent
>>> was to only comply with
>> a cosmetic appearance, rather than a "perfect"
>>> representation of
>> "pure stock".
>>
>>right. that's why we have been allowing powder coat and
>> clear coat/base coat
>>finishes, and coating of parts normally left bare
>> as long as it *looks*
>>stock. if the end product does not look stock, it
>> doesn't make the cut.
>>
>>
>>While the latter is a great ideal to
>> shoot
>>> for, the original intent was to allow the points system to
>> penalize
>>> infractions to the "perfect" state on a stock class car
>> that was less than
>>> "perfectly" factory stock.
>>>
>>> The
>> question we should be asking ourselves is whether we are being too
>>>
>> critical, and should we "cut some slack" with those who are not
>> "letter
>>> perfect"?
>>
>>whether or not we are too critical depends
>> on whose standard you are judging
>>corsa by. are we too critical for some
>> other single marque clubs? my opinion
>>is definitly not. too crital for
>> aaca? i think we're on the money for them.
>>too crital for a local town
>> car show? yes.
>>so the qustion then goes to what standard do you want be?
>> the best? middle
>>of the road? or entry level ?
>>
>>I think that we
>> could find some way to preserve our high
>>> standards, yet encourage
>> entrants rather than frustrate them. Perhaps a
>>> points penalization
>> system, rather than an outright disqualification?
>>
>>it's not a
>> disqualification from factory stock, they weren't in it to begin
>>
>>with. people who do not make factory stock did not do enough
>> homework.
>>it is not easy to restore a car a car to factory stock. it
>> costs way more
>>money, and takes much more time to do so, which is a big
>> factor. and it
>>takes alot of reasearch, not just opening up clark's
>> catalogue.
>>and it's much harder on a 'common' car like a corvair where
>> many of the
>>these cars were simply transportation back when they new,
>> and many
>>modifications were made in the course of regular service and
>> repairs. and
>>*especially*on a corvair because most service
>> facilities did not like or
>>undestand these cars.
>>
>>> Something
>> to think about...
>>
>>i agree
>>
>>
>>>
>>> -Mark
>> Corbin
>>>
>>lc
>>
>>>
>>>> [Original Message]
>>>>
>> From: Bill Hubbell <whubbell at cox.net>
>>>> To:
>> Larry Claypool <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>;
>> Duanne Luckow
>>> <daluckow at aol.com>;
>> CORSA/CPF BoD <corsabod at corvair.org>; Stock
>> Corvair
>>> Group <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
>>>>
>> Date: 9/3/2009 12:05:53 AM
>>>> Subject: [SCG] Factory Stock Corvair
>> Entries and Stock Preservation
>>> Awardhistory in CORSA Concours
>> 1997-2009
>>>>
>>>> To:
>>>>
>>>> Larry
>> Claypool, CORSA Concours Classification Chairman
>>>>
>>>>
>> Duanne Luckow, CORSA Concours Chair
>>>>
>>>> CORSA Board of
>> Directors
>>>>
>>>> Stock Corvair
>> Group
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> Gentleman,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Attached is a
>> summary of all cars entered into the two CORSA Concours
>>>> Factory
>> Stock classes since the development of the Stock Preservation
>>>
>> Award
>>>> in 1997. Although we have had some great success
>> with recent Factory
>>> Stock
>>>> Restored entries also winning
>> the Mitchell Award, the fact remains that
>>>> participation in the
>> Factory Stock Classes remains very low. Please
>>>
>> review
>>>> this information with an eye towards answering the
>> question of what, if
>>>> anything, we can do to encourage and
>> improve Factory Stock participation
>>> at
>>>> the Concours
>> level.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank
>> you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>> Hubbell
>>>>
>>>> President, Stock Corvair
>> Group
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Corsabod mailing
>> list
>>Corsabod at tiger.skiblack.com
>>http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/listinfo/corsabod
>>
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