[SCG] (Second Try) Re: When did belt guards appear on 1964Corvairs?

Fri Sep 8 12:03:17 EDT 2017

I do not mean to hijack this thread, but I have a question for all SCG people.

I am finding lately several 65’s that I believe are untouched, that have 66 steering column jackets.  We know that the bolt patterns between the years are different, and yet I am finding

At least two examples of 66 jackets mounted in a 65.

Anybody have any insight or comments on this.

Bob Bauer

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: William Hubbell via SCG-list
Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 9:49 PM
To: David Newell
Cc: Larry Claypool; larry at vairshop.com; Stock Corvair Group
Subject: Re: [SCG] (Second Try) Re: When did belt guards appear on 1964Corvairs?

Yes, that seems to make sense. 

Bill

On Sep 7, 2017, at 10:34 PM, David Newell <chevrobilia at yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, yeah, I think we'd done that unless the TSB date is disproven. I thought we'd moved on to tackle the use of one or both both brackets with A/C. It looks like we should be able to agree that only the rear bracket on the idler pulley was used with '64 and '65 A/C.
Dave

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/7/17, William Hubbell <wjhubbell at gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: (Second Try) Re: When did belt guards appear on 1964 Corvairs?
To: "David Newell" <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
Cc: larry at vairshop.com, "Stock Corvair Group" <scg-list at corvair.org>, "Larry Claypool" <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thursday, September 7, 2017, 5:49 PM

But can we all agree that neither
of them were originally used on any car prior to Nov 29,
1963?

Bill

On Sep 7, 2017, at 5:24 PM, David Newell <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
wrote:

Hi,
Thanks Larry. I did think the front bracket
might interfere with the shroud on the bottom of the
condenser, but couldn't find any note which would
exclude their use together. 

The 64 Accessory Installation Manual (for
dealer-installed A/C) was no help either, since it was
published before the guards' introduction. Neither was
the '65 manual, which was published before the 65 dealer
A/C instructions were ready.

But I think I found the answer in the '65
Assembly Manual. Like the '64 book, it still doesn't
tell you not to use the front bracket with A/C, but page C5
in the A/C section shows the front bracket cap screws to
simply be used as "plugs" in the top shroud's
bracket holes. Since the open holes would be an air leak, I
think it's safe to say that the same thing was done on
'64s with A/C. But nothing to that effect made it into
the 64 Assembly Manual.

The
rear bracket, though, shows up in '65 A/C photos. There
shouldn't be any reason not to use it on '64 A/C
cars, either. 

Dave   
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/7/17,  <larry at vairshop.com>
wrote:

Subject: Re: (Second
Try) Re: When did belt guards appear on 1964 Corvairs?
To: "William Hubbell" <wjhubbell at gmail.com>
Cc: "David Newell" <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>,
"Stock Corvair Group" <scg-list at corvair.org>,
"Larry Claypool" <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thursday, September 7, 2017, 4:47 AM

hi guys- just a note, i
don't believe the
a/c cars used the
upper  
guard, it
interfered with the condenser to upper shroud
fitment. not 

sure about
the rear guard. a look in the
a/c
installation instructions  
for dealer
a/c may clarify.
lc

  Quoting William Hubbell
<wjhubbell at gmail.com>:

> Dave - thanks so much
for
the information!
> 

> 
Yes, I would be very
interested in receiving a scanned copy
of
the  
> TSB 982 whenever you get time
to do it.
> 
> Thanks
again!
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Sep 6, 2017,
at
11:21 PM, David Newell <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> 
> (Sorry for
the incomplete
first attempt...due to my eyesight my left 

> thumb sometimes hits the
Control key
instead of Shift and sends  
> emails
before I've
finished them!)
> 
> 
Bill,
> Thanks for
bringing up this interesting subject. I think
you're 

> right,
Bill, in that the 3-27-64 Assy
Manual note
simply revised the  
> 
existing drawing (which already showed the
guards) and added
a  
> 
dimension to it. I don't have
the
previous pages in my book, sorry.
> 
> But I found TSB 982
which
only went to the field and not to dealers:  
> "Corvair and Corvair 95 Blower
Belt
Front and Rear Guides" dated  
> 
3-18-64. It states that
"All Corvair Models produced
after
November  
> 29, 1963, are
equipped with subject guides to afford greater
belt  
> durability and to prevent
belt
roll-over."
> 

> 
The primary purpose
of the bulletin was to show how the
guides
could  
> be field installed on
61 through early 64 Corvairs. Four pages of 

> instructions and drawings were
included,
mostly devoted to  
> fabricating a
bracket for
the front guide and welding it to the top  
> shroud. If anyone's interested, the
next time I have my laptop hard  
> 
wired to my non-Wifi
scanner I can scan the bulletin for
you.
> 
> I checked the
'64 GM Proving Ground Vair production test
car photos 

> but the
only one photographed after
11-29 was a
non-A/C 927, shot on  
> 
3-9-64, which had the guards. The others,
including and A/C
car,  
> didn't have them.
> 

> I have one more
source
to check, the monthly quality reports, to see  
> if there are any comments about adding
the
guards as a fix for a  
> chronic
quality issue. I
can't find them right now though.
> 

> Since no exclusions
for A/C were mentioned in either the Assy
Manual  
> or the bulletin, I can't
see any
reason to believe that '64 A/C
cars  
> didn't use the brackets.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Dave
> 
> 
--------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 9/6/17, William Hubbell <wjhubbell at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
> Subject:
Re: When did belt
guards appear on 1964 Corvairs?
> To: larry at vairshop.com
> Cc: "Stock Corvair Group" <scg-list at corvair.org>,
"Dave Newell"  
> 
<chevrobilia at yahoo.com>,
"Larry Claypool" <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Wednesday, September 6, 2017,
4:40
PM
> 
> Thanks Larry -
I don't
know why I didn't
> think
of that!
> 
> According
to the 1964
Assembly Manual,
> Section 6,
Sheet A4.00 titled "Belt and Belt
Adjustment, on
> 3-27-64:
> Note 6 : 
"View A
Revised and Dim
> 
Added".  (View A shows the two guides and
the
> dimensions for adjusting them)
> Note 7: "Dim Instructions
Revised"
> (This refers
to the
dimensions for
> 
clearance from guide to
top edge of pulley
after belt is
> 
tightened)
> Note 8:
"Tensioning
Note Revised"
> 
> 
I
checked the 1963 Assembly Manual and
> 

there is a similar page for "Belt and
Belt Adjustment
",
> 
Section 6 Sheet A 9.00.  The
main photo on
this sheet
> is nearly
identical to the main photo in the 1964
manual,
> but View A is quite different
and, of
course, does not show
> belt guides.
> 
> Therefore it is a
possibility that the
> belt
guides may
have been added around 3-27-64,
at the time
> View A and belt tensioning
note was
revised.  However,
> note 7 seems to
suggest
the possibility that there could
> have
been an earlier version of view A
showing
the belt
> guides with a
different clearance between the fan pulley
and
> top shroud belt guide, so this date
is not
certain.
> 
> I also
checked the 1964
Assembly Manual
> Air
Conditioning section but find no mention there
of belt
> guides.  I rather suspect they
were not
added to the
> 
A/C engine but I'm
really not sure about
that.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Sep 6, 2017, at
6:01 PM, larry at vairshop.com
> wrote:
> 
> hi Bill
> as a
starting
point check the assembly
> manual and see
what date
is listed for the guards. that
> 
doesn't mean they entered production
then, but it would
> *not*
have entered
production *before* then. rear
refers to
> one at idler pulley, and yes
they are
guides.
> 
> there may
be a technical
service
> bulletin that
tells techs how to adjust these, and it may
> note when they came into production.
i'll look when i get a
> 
chance, but
it's not likely to be
soon.
> 
larry
> 
> 
> 
> mQuoting William
Hubbell <wjhubbell at gmail.com>:
> 
>> Do we know
the
approximate date
> 
when the top shroud
and idler pulley belt
guards were added
> 
to
the Corvair engine?  Also, do we know if Early Air
> Conditioned cars used either of these
guards?
>> 
>> 
The guides definitely
first
> appeared
sometime
in the 1964 model year, as there are two
> top shroud part numbers listed in the
March 1, 1964
> 
Corvair-Chevy-Chevelle
parts catalog:
>> 
>> - 3794216
Shroud Assembly, Upper,
> 62-63 Corvair,
FC, 64 Corvair (exc.
Turbocharger) (1st
> design)
>> - 3851838
Shroud Shroud Assembly,
> Upper, Corvair,
FC (exc. Spyder) (2nd
design)
>> 
>> 
There are likewise two part
> numbers for
64 Spyder top
shroud:
>> 
>> -
3848398 Shroud Assembly, Upper,
> 64
Corvair, Spyder (1st design)
>> -
3851840 Shroud Assembly, Upper,
> 64
Spyder (2nd design)
>> 
>> There is
apparently
only one
> listing for 64
FC:
>> 
>> -
3848400 Shroud
Assembly, Upper,
> 64
FC
>> 
>> 
Additionally, the
index listing
> for
"Guide, Blower belt idler pulley"
points to
section
> 
1.060.  In that section I find
the
following:
>> 
>> - 3851844 Guide, front, 64
> Corvair, FC (exc. Air Cond.)
>> - 3851845 Guide, rear, 64 Corvair,
> FC
>> 
>> I'm not sure if
"guide"
is the
> belt guard.  If so, is the
"front" the guide that goes
> 
on the upper shroud and
"rear" the guide that goes
on
the
> idler pulley?
>> 
>> The parts
book does not list the
> 
dates for
"1st design" and
"2nd design" - do we
have any
> idea when this change took
place?   I already looked in
> my
Clark's
reproduction Chevrolet Service Bulletins and
did
> not find anything, but
as these are
edited reproductions I
> might be missing
the
announcement.
>> 
>> Bill Hubbell
> 
> 
> 
> 
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