[V8Vairs] What's being used for cooling system pipes?

Me Too dailygrind4ever at yahoo.com
Thu Dec 1 18:48:55 EST 2005


Dewey...
I apologize if I come off sounding like a jerk, or a
know-it-all,  but there are a few facts that need to
be addressed.
Aluminizing is a chemical method of adding a
sacrificial layer on the outer surface of the
steel...this is done by dipping...it does indeed flake
off after multiple heat-cycles.  As is
Galvanizing...it is dipped, not an electro-plating
process...zinc will flake off the pipes as the ZINC is
what is doing the "galvanic" sacrificing...when it is
gone, the steel will still be able to rust. 
The only way to keep any Ferric metal from rusting is
to deny oxygen to the system...and as I doubt anybody
has gone to the extremes of purging their coolant
systems with argon, xenon or any of the other
atmospheric gases, there will always be oxygen in the
system.  Iron block, steel pipes, water, oxygen,
heat...yeah, sounds like the conditions that help rust
do it's nibbling.
As for anti-freeze...it is only
that...anti-FREEZE...the glycol (alcohol) that is in
the solution adds surface tension to the water,
enabling it to be used year-round as a coolant, but
it's primary purpose is to keep the pressurized system
from freezing as it surely would if only water were
present.
Most of the anti-freeze/anti-rust formulas on the
market are primarily to protect the iron
block/aluminum head-ed engines that are quite common
on the market now.  Iron and aluminum in the presence
of water act like a weak battery and will corrode the
aluminum.  If you think aluminum is the only material
losing something in the battle you are wrong...a weak
electric charge is being cycled through the system,
which helps RUST the iron block...even the high-nickel
content blocks of today.  That is a fact...automobiles
are systems with inherent compromises...it's simply
amazing that we can use them as long and as hard as we
do...and also modify them to perform better than from
the factory or showroom floor!  I'm glad that we can.
As for stainless steel...only non-magnetic stainless
steels are rust proof...if you don't believe me, check
out any metallurgical reference online...that is why
304 stainless is not used for ANY marine applications.
 They can and do rust,  though not as spectacularly as
mild steel or even chrome-moly.  Non-magnetic
stainless steel is quite expensive...and there is a
reason for that...it is expensive to manufacture.  A
higher chromium content, as well as other metals in
concentrations that are measured in ppm, usually.  I
am not a chemist, or even a metallurgist, but I do
have some background working with metals, and have had
to ask many a question in order to find the reason why
something does or does not work on occasion.
I was only trying to suggest that Bob look at an
inexpensive material that is available that is capable
of handling the task...although as I discussed with
him earlier, Schedule 80 is a better choice...not
perfect, but better.
Yes, exhaust tubing will work...will it last a long
time?, yes, if properly maintained...is it the best
solution?, depends on your willingness to experiment
and funds availability...does exhaust tubing rust when
used as a coolant line? Yes it does...maybe not a lot,
maybe not enough to notice...but it does rust...all
metals in nature rust...Titanium becomes T02, aluminum
becomes Al02, Iron becomes Fe02, and on and on...ad
infinitum...that is natures way of striking balance.
Again, I apologize...I wasn't trying to say that the
tried and true way is wrong...it just has issues that
need to be addressed.  Not to mention that welding
galvanized or aluminized pipe is hazardous to your
health - zinc can be fatal in high enough
concentrations...and if you are welding underneath a
car without adequate ventilation it can poison 
you...and that is fact.
I know that there are a great many people who have
valuable experience, and talent, and tremendous
skills, and that is not to take anything away from
them...but to make as if I were coming from left field
simply because I voiced an option that is not
"traditional" does not make it invalid.
Thanks,
Trent

> Bob : the use of exh. tubing is quite common and I
> do use it. Contrary to 
> Mr. "Me Too", the additional additive of
> "aluminizing and galvanizing" is to 
> "retard" rusting and corrosion; besides , I think
> most (or all) anti-freeze 
> solutions incorporate "anti-rust/corrosion"
> additives. Believe it would last 
> for many years. Also, Regular exhaust systems do
> have some water vaper/(some 
> liquid); and acidic, by-products of combustion.
> Won't get into a stainless 
> steel "debate"----here !!??    Dewey
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Thomas Robert R Civ 76 PMXG/MAEAPF"
> <Robert.Thomas at tinker.af.mil>
> To: "discussion of non-stock engines in Corvairs"
> <v8vairs at corvair.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:05 PM
> Subject: [V8Vairs] What's being used for cooling
> system pipes?
> 
> 
> >1 1/2" copper pipe is really expensive I see. Are
> most of you using exhaust
> > tubing or something else?
> >
> > Bob Thomas
> > 68 Monza, etc.
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/listinfo/v8vairs
> > This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of
> America, 
> > http://www.corvair.org/
> > 
> 
> 
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