<VV> RE: Ethanol? filter problems? (HUH?)

Mon Jun 20 15:28:45 EDT 2005

Very outdated and incorrect information.  When they started making 
bio-fuels this was true ... now bio fuels are similar to fossil fuels in 
terms of actual cost, with bio-diesel doing the best.  There is no "one 
answer" to energy problems, but, some combination of electric, bio, 
hydrogen, and so forth is more likely to be the end solution.  Meanwhile we 
have to try different things and work on the technology.  My mandating it, 
we force people to use it, and eventually force the technology to work.  I 
remember when people said the same type of things about pollution controls 
on cars ... that they would create more smog due to poor mileage, that cars 
would be slow, unreliable, etc.  And people were right for the first decade 
or so.  But at this time there is more performance, better mileage, and 
cleaner air from modern cars than pre-smog cars.  For laughs, go lookup the 
0-60 times, mileage, and top speed of the average mini-van, neon, or pickup 
truck ... and compare that to your Corvair.  And all that, and the smog is 
1/100th of what a pre-smog Corvair puts out ... (of all the cars tested by 
Road & Track in their road test summary for the last year, only two were 
slower than a Turbo Corvair (based on contemporary road tests) ... the 
ultra fuel efficient hybrids were a few tenths slower.  This included EVERY 
mini-van, economy car, trucks, SUVs, etc.).

The same will happen with bio-fuels ... as we use more it will be more 
efficient to produce it, the cars will run better on it, and so 
forth.   BTW, smog is also much better with bio-fuels as there are way less 
contaminants in bio fuel.

Don't be so cynical :-) !

At 02:26 PM 6/17/2005, RoboMan91324 at aol.com wrote:
>Not that I don't mind making oil companies or OPEC unhappy but ethanol is not
>cheaper than gasoline.  When it takes the approximate energy equivalent of
>1.5 - 1.7 gallons of gasoline to take corn, sugar beets or whatever from the
>ground to the end product, how is that less expensive?  I am not certain 
>that 1.5
>- 1.7 is the real range but estimates are close to that.  The only reason
>that the ethanol is in any way viewed as cheaper than gas is because of
>governmental subsidies.  These subsidies are paid for by you and I through 
>our taxes.
>In effect, we will be paying more at the end of the day one way or the other
>for fuel.  Those who benefit, as always, are the politicians who are 
>posing as
>"doing something" to alleviate the energy problem.  They are more than happy
>to pick our pockets to make themselves look like heroes.  Of course, the
>farmers benefit as well but why should one group of people suffer for 
>another just
>because they have a strong lobby?  (I know, it happens all the time.)  The
>bottom line is that production of ethanol is a net energy drain not gain.
>
>I suppose that a case can be made for using "cheap" electrical energy to
>produce ethanol.  This would need to be either hydro or nuclear if there is
>surplus.  However, the vast majority of electrical energy production in 
>the USA is
>generated through the use of fossil fuels.  This is especially the case in
>those states that are major corn producers (the plains states) where hydro 
>is not
>a big option for the most part.  These are the states that are lobbying for
>these issues.
>
>The public at large is being duped when they are told that these supposed
>"renewable resources" are the answer to our problems.  These sort of 
>political
>con games lull the uniformed into a false sense of security and divert 
>attention
>and resources from real solutions.
>
>The last part is JMHO (Just My Humble Opinion) but the rest of it is just
>plain Physics.
>
>Doc
>~~~~~~~~~~~~
>In a message dated 6/17/2005 9:35:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>virtualvairs-request at corvair.org writes:
>
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:27:58 -0500
> > From: "werp knarly" <werpknarly at centurytel.net>
> > Subject: Re: <VV> RE: Ethanol? filter problems?
> > To: <mopar at jbcs2.net>, <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> > Message-ID: <027901c57359$876dc9d0$bad3fea9 at S0029301453>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> >     reply-type=original
> >
> > yes we may have to deal with the "crud" left in our fuel systems from
> > burning crude oil based fuel... but should ethanol be blamed for 
> cleaning up what
> > gasoline left behind?
> >
> > and yes the farmers will be happy,, but best of all...
> >
> > the oil companies and the mid east countries wont be happy
> >
> > btw, today ethanol is cheaper than gasoline.  and even if it is a bit more
> > money per mile driven,,,, the oil companies and the mid east countries 
> wont be
> > happy
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Joe,
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