<VV> painting

[Tony Underwood]

At 09:01 AM 9/21/2009, Frank DuVal wrote:
>Tony:
>
>You are comparing OEM paint to aftermarket paint.


EXACTLY.


>They were always two
>different animals, even when produced by the same company (Dupont, RM ,
>PPG). OEM paint always held up better than what is sold through paint
>stores to refinish cars.


And THAT is why I used the stuff I used on the 
'62 ragtop.  It came from a GM source...  even 
had disclaimers on the plain yellow label 
"commercial application not for resale".

I guess we'll see how it holds up.


>The lacquer applied by GM was a reflow type
>paint. They didn't buff every car!


...uh, not every car but they buffed 
Corvairs.   The cars were polished with a pumice 
slurry and buffed.   This I was told by someone who did it.


>They heated the bodies to 200° F or
>better after applying the paint, so it would flow to a gloss.


It was also to cure and harden the paint.


>That is
>why they were painted on the assembly line before wiring and interior
>installation. Aftermarket (refinish market) lacquer never held up well.


Some of it did... ;)   It depended a lot on where 
the paint came from.   Even GM lacquer didn't 
last worth a damn during the later years.   But 
earlier on, it was some tough stuff.


>It is just when people traded their cars every few years, the effects
>weren't as noticeable on everyday cars. Now, park your lacquer car in a
>garage, and it will be there looking good a long time. But outside in
>today's acid rain environment? Forget it.


Obviously this is the case.   Easy to see.


However:


That red Lakewood has its original factory Roman 
Red lacquer still on it and it's still solid and 
it will still shine if waxed.  It has a single 
shiny spot on the roof that I left on it, after 
the car sat for many years untouched.   In the 
weather.   Ignored.   In fact I doubt it's even been washed since 1971.

Yet its factory lacquer is still there, and still 
intact...   in between the scratches and nicks 
and other abrasions the car has picked up in its 48 years.


>Why would one want to use lacquer to color coat a car and then apply
>urethane clear? Just use today's basecoat color. It is even more
>forgiving than lacquer!


Now:

Not sure what's the standard clear coat for a 
lacquer color coat today... I imagine some sort 
of catalytic.   But along the way I've seen a 
variety of different basecoat-clearcoat paints 
that were LACQUER.   ...supplied via GM to 
dealerships for "factory original" matching 
repaints following collision damage etc, still 
have some of the stuff that I used to repaint the 
front of my sister's '86 Camaro.  Both the color 
coat and clear are Lacquer... from the Berglund 
Chevy bodyshop.   Admittedly that was almost 10 years ago...    ;)

...interesting that the tag on the side says to 
not wetsand but apply clearcoat directly over the 
base coat after it flashes well.   I think I'd 
still wanna wetsand.  ...call me kooky...



>Much easier to use. I like Deltron DBU base
>colors. It is very similar to Sikkens in smell, application, etc. I even
>use both brands on the same car if I need two tones, stripes, etc. Now
>it is time to learn waterbase!


...been thinking about waterbase paints... it's 
the clear coat that remains liverkiller.

(unless someone somewhere made a clear that's 
durable and won't dissolve your vital organs)

...another reason to shoot lacquer if you have to 
do it without a space suit.   Several guys local 
who switched to cat paints thinking they didn't 
need the suit have met their maker before their time because of it...

Lacquer won't kill you... it just makes you ditzy.



I can deal with ditzy...     heeheehee!!!!



>Back about 1980, R-M


I like RM lacquer, decent stuff, always been nice 
to me.   The paint on this ragtop is RM that came 
from GM a long time ago.   THAT is why the ragtop 
got painted with it, *Because* it's GM paint 
dating back to the '70s so I'm told.   And it had 
NOT settled or clumped or done anything else bad 
like lacquer from the vendors does these 
days.   Last batch of red from PPG had an inch of 
pigment sitting in the bottom like mud when I 
opened it up to stir it.   Not so this RM stuff, 
and it had been sitting on a shelf in the 
basement over TEN YEARS during the time I've had 
it, and it was already OLD when I bought 
it.   All it needed was shaken, not stirred.

Long term longevity on the previous RM lacquer I 
shot remains unknown because last time I shot 
something with RM it left the residence after a 
year anna half and I've not seen the car since... 
(it was another Corvair ragtop) but it (madira 
maroon) went on nice and smooth, buffed out 
easily with very little sanding beforehand, and 
it was still bright and glossy a year later with 
no waxing as I recall (the owner was too good to 
wax it, didn't wanna get any wax under her nails).


>Lacquer just dries by evaporation of the solvent, so most lacquer paint


...which is basically acrylic plastic...


>can be revived with fresh thinner and time.


Sometimes... ;)   Depends on how bad it oxidized 
and how much metallic content.   A wetsand and 
shot of thinner on a primary color lacquer can 
bring it right back again...  but it doesn't work 
very well on something like copper or silver or 
even LeMans Blue once Nature gets a grip on it.

>Enamels dry through
>oxidation, they usually cannot be revived as a chemical change has occurred.


...nor can they be brought back by buffing in 
most instances, particularly metallics.   Might 
as well strip it and repaint because you're not 
gonna bring back oxidized enamel metallics.



Now:    All this is worthy of note in that I 
painted this convertible in the yard.   Under a 
mulberry tree.   No berries.   But it was 
shade... out of the sun.    One does NOT spray 
lacquer on a hot car, ever.   Not unless you want 
it to end up with a finish like non-slip bed liner.

The fact that you can end up with a fairly decent 
driver quality paint job with lacquer shot in the 
yard is WHY I used it to begin with.   I don't 
have a spray booth nor an enclosure empty enough 
to contain a car and the necessary hardware to 
paint in.   And I can NOT justify 2000-3000 bucks 
for a "nice" paint job by a shop or the bargain 
basement "pick from these 5 pastels" shops like 
Earl's...  a guy I worked with had his Olds 
painted (white) at Earl's and first time he 
washed the car after that the paint came off in sheets.


Lacquer is work-intensive done the way I do it 
but it's so forgiving that it can be shot almost 
anywhere and still end up looking ok if you use 
even moderate care.    It's primary failing is 
the "advances" in technology which have made 
modern lacquers somewhat lacking in durability 
compared to what was once available... and I 
don't mean consumer-quality products vs 
commercial quality lacquer.   I've seen cars show 
up around here that got "small shop" lacquer 
repaints back before JFK was elected that still 
held onto a gloss after many years.     And they 
weren't hanger queens.   Lacquer today just isn't what it once was.

...which is why I collected up on some old 
lacquer while I could... at least the stuff that 
was still viable and it's easy to check it 
out.   Some of it came from an old paint & body 
shop that was shutting down after the owner 
retired... evidently eyeballs spinning in 
opposite directions or something from the fumes...



So, I do it on the cheap... and my boasting 
afterwards is not how much I spent on the work, 
but how little...   which is why the proper term 
is "jackleg".    However, sometimes Jackleg works 
and works well, and the end result is what 
matters, at least to me.  Your mileage may vary.





tony..


ps:   if this paint falls off the car after two 
years, I shan't bitch; I'll just paint it again