<VV> oil subject again

[Mark Durham]

Bob, I agree with you. I have carefully studied the ratings of oils also. I
have spent a lot of time researching oils and comparing them to the needs of
the corvair motor. I spent quite a bit of time reading and analyzing Richard
Widman's very well done analysis of oils and the needs of the Corvair
engine.

Not all oils are good for flat tappet engines. Those that have good base
stock would be good but many lack the ZDDP. Full synthetics like Amsoil and
Mobil 1 have been tested beyond any limits I will place on the engine in my
car or the limits that oil could achieve when the engine was designed.

Got this off a flat tappet GM v-8 web site:

Starting in 1993 The American Petroleum Institute (API) and International
Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC) mandated reductions in ZDDP
(Zinc Dialkyl-Dithio-Phosphate or "zink"), the most commonly used anti-wear
additive in motor oils. ZDDP contains both zinc and phosphorus components
working together to provide anti-wear protection. Reducing the level of ZDDP
compromises protection to engine components, most notably in flat tappet
camshafts, and dramatically during flat-tappet cam break-in. The level of
ZDDP specified in the 1988 API SF was 1500 ppm, and in the 1993 API SG 1200
ppm. Introduced in 2005, current API SM and ILSAC GF-4 specifications for
gasoline engines have maximum and minimum phosphorus levels of 800 ppm and
600 ppm, respectively, for SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-30 and
SAE 10W-30 motor oils. All other gasoline SAE grades do not have a mandated
phosphorus limit. Flat-tappet camshaft failures appeared with introduction
these specifications in 2005.

>From these specifications and timeline, we propose that 1200 PPM is a
minimum phosphorus level and 1500 PPM or more is suggested for extreme lifts
and spring pressures.

The older Mobil 1 results showed this: For older, flat tappet engines where
wear may be more of a concern, we offer a number of oil
products<http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf>which
are higher in phosphorus than API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils.  These include
Mobil
1 15W-50<http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_15W-50_.aspx>(1,200
ppm), Mobil
1 0W-40<http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-40.aspx>(1,000
ppm) and Mobil
1 High Mileage 5W-30<http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_High_Mileage_5W-30.aspx>,
10W-30<http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_High_Mileage_10W-30.aspx>and
10W-40<http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_High_Mileage_10W-40.aspx>(900
ppm).  For all newer engines and flat tappet engines in normal
service,
API SM/ISLAC GF-4 oils are preferred for better fuel economy and for the
protection of catalytic systems with lower phosphorous (800 ppm).
On that note, I just wrote Mobil a note requesting an update on current oils
recommended for flat tappet engines with their ZDDP levels. Their last
report was in 2006 or 2007, too old to be of any use today as new oils have
come out and older oils have changed or been deleted.
 Will post the results if they reply.

Amsoil did all sorts of tests, their 10 W40 oil came in #1 most of the time,
Mobil 1 came in a close second most of the time. Second is good enough for
me and is a bit cheaper to buy and I can get it at Wally's world when I am
doing other shopping.

>From what I see the Amsoil has the minimum amount of ZDDP, the Mobil 1
products do not have enough, and an additive is needed. Back to my original
statement.

Other oils need to be researched by you and you decide.

And Bill I am not proposing anyone go get a oil from "Bubba" because it is
on the side of a race car. I'm relying on the same experts you are. I've
done the study work and am happy with my choice.  Mobil 1 is an excellant
product, that far surpasses regular oils in lubricity and many other so
called synthetics in actual tests and I use it in all my vehicles. I expect
many years of trouble free service, but for the corvair I'm watching the
ZDDP levels carefully and will use an additive if the levels continue to
fall..

There is always the roller cam option!

Regards Mark Durham

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:50 PM, <BobHelt at aol.com> wrote:

> In a message dated 4/14/2010 2:05:28 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
> .........writes:
>
> So,  since the oil companies don't tell you what they are doing, the
> >ZDDP  additive is a sure thing with a good synthetic oil!
>
> Not so fast there......
>
> The API spends thousands of dollars creating oil specifications to meet all
>  automotive oil applications. Then the oil companies spend millions to meet
> these  specifications, all so you the consumer can buy your oil with
> knowledge and  confidence. E.g.,, SM or SL references.
>
> Now you are proposing that this is all wasted money and you can do better
> by adding an unknown amount of an unknown chemical to your oil and achieve
> the  same or better results.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Helt
>
>
>
>
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