<VV> Picking is OK.

Sun Mar 6 14:48:12 EST 2011

Bob,

I love it!

Ted

On 3/6/2011 11:18 AM, Bob Gilbert wrote:
> One of my grand-daughters wants my UltraVan - not the 66 convertible - the
> UltraVan! Reason - the UltraVan is "so retro".
> Go figure. LOL
>
> Regards,
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org
> [mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org] On Behalf Of Ted Duke
> Sent: March-05-11 5:10 PM
> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Subject: Re:<VV>  Picking is OK.
>
> James,
>
> Just a comment on being the only living grandfather.  Your grandkids are
> lucky to have a nice guy, that you seem to be, as a grandfather.  I never
> had grandparents, my Mother was an orphan raised by her Aunt and Uncle who I
> never knew and my father's grandparents died before I was born.  I am sure
> those kids will profit from your advice and wisdom.
> Ain't grandchildren wonderful?  I have ten, 3 boys and 7 girls.  The six
> over 11 all want their grandmothers 65 Mustang.  I imagine one of them will
> want the CORVAIR and I think I know which one, but she's only 7 and hasn't
> said anything YET.  If I ever get to the 62 Corvair vert I imgine all of the
> girls will want it.
>
> P. S. CORVAIR content.... Iwish I had been there for the race.
>
> Ted
>
> On 3/5/2011 5:51 PM, James P. Rice wrote:
>> Tony:  Sorry I'm tardy getting back to you all with the real info.
>> I've been off with our kids and g'kids, dealing with stuff and working
>> on my stack of what Pete Egan referred to as " The things they will
>> immediately sell (or throw out) the minute you are dead."  OK, it may
>> take a couple of weeks, but they have no use for most of my inventory
>> of stuff.  My oldest grandson, age 9, recently asked me if he can have
>> all my model airplanes when I die.  I said sure, and anything else you
>> want.  We lost his other Papa a year ago.  The other grandfather
>> parted this life as we know it before any of our other daughters 3
> children could form any memories.
>> Sometimes it is very uncomfortable being the only living grandfather
>> to our
>> 5 grandchildren.
>>
>> So, Tony, you are absolutely correct about the 4-speed history.  This
>> is what happens when you read a story as a 16 yr old in R&T, save the
>> picture of the Corvair, but not the article or the magazine.  When I
>> found that issue many years ago, I read it again and file it in a
>> folder for a Communique article named "Corvair Racing: 1959 thru
>> 1968".  Then forget to remember to check the article before telling
>> the tale which Tony correctly called me on.  Sorry.  My bad.
>>
>> OK, here is briefly what happened at the first road race the Corvair
>> was in, fall of 1959.  They got beat by Falcons and Rambler Americans
>> for two reasons.  First, all the cars had 3-speeds.  Because of the
>> final drive ratios (hay Frank, remember those things!), the Corvairs
>> had to drive the entire course in 3rd.  The Falcons and Ramblers had a
>> different rear axle ratio, which allowed them to use 2nd gear coming
>> off the corners.  Corvair would catch them in the corners, they would pull
> away on the straights.
>> Only way to get by was if one of them made a mistake.  But the pass
>> would not stick for long.  Then there were the tire problems.  Two
>> different brands for the Corvairs.  The left rear tire on for brand x
>> would wear out and them blow out.  Causing at least on 'vair to flip.
>> Brand Y would merely wear out, but there weren't enough of them.  So to
> many pit stops.
>> Round 1 to them.  It didn't get much better for Corvairs in sedan racing.
>> Ever.  Next race, Corvairs had 4 speeds and Duntov in the pits.  Not
>> much better.  Yenko Stingers five years later, were a different story,
>> but they were not sedans according to the rules.
>>
>> Not stuck in a car that will barely keep up with its shadow, I remain,
>>
>> Historically Yours,
>> 			James
>>
>> PS: Lates eat earlies on road courses.  Unless Smitty or Marlow are
> driving.
>> Then watch out.  VBG!!!
>>
>> *************************************
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 02:02:20 -0500
>> From: Tony Underwood<tony.underwood at cox.net>
>> Subject: Re:<VV>   Smitty beats most everybody.
>> To:<virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>>
>> At 06:29 PM 2/24/2011, James P. Rice wrote:
>>> PSS:  One of the main reasons Corvairs got beat in their very first
>>> ever
>> road race was because they had 3-speeds and the Falcons and Ramblers
>> had 4-speeds.  Multiple gears matter.  Oh. wait, that's the historian
> speaking.
>> Oops.  Sorry.  Actually, no I'm not!!
>>
>> Not to pick...
>>
>> But when did Falcons have a 4-speed gearbox before 'Vairs?   By the time
>> Falcons were available with 4-speeds, Corvairs had already had them a
> year.
>> Ford rushed the Falcon 4-speed into production in order to compete
>> with the Corvairs that had 4-speeds, and to do it they had to use an
>> English 4-speed with a case casting that had a Ford small bellhousing bolt
> pattern.
>> It was a light transmission, think it was originally for an Anglia.  I
> could
>> pick one up and lift it up over my shoulder with one arm.   It was not the
>> most durable gearbox ever... the Falcon 6-banger would bust it with ease.
>> And did.   A holeshot in an early Falcon with even the little 6 (144)
> would
>> shear teeth off the cluster gear if the car had any sort of tire on back.
>> My buddy up the street from high school days had a sweet little Falcon
>> his dad bought
>> new.   Very clean, straight, baby blue, went everywhere in it.   Wayne HAD
>> to have a 4-speed... original 3 speed was simply not cool enough.
>>
>> It was a mistake.   He managed to turn up a 4-speed and got it in the car.
>> It broke in less than a week.   Another 4-speed... broke it.   A 3rd.
> This
>> as you could guess began to get expensive...  he resorted back to 3
>> speeds because there were no more 4-speeds in the
>> local junkyards.   He started breaking them too, since by this time he'd
>> gotten some tires on the back.   After a couple more 3-speeds and at least
>> one more 4-speed, he'd had enough.
>>
>> By the time he gave up and put a 302 with a T-10 in the Falcon (I
>> spent a weekend with him at the machine shop where he worked
>> fabricating various bits and pieces to make all THAT work out), there
>> was a pile of busted 3 and
>> 4 speed gearboxes in back of Wayne's house, stacked like cordwood by the
>> shed.   I am serious... there must have been a dozen or more.
>>
>> Keep in mind that Ford was supplying Rambler's smaller cars with
>> manual transmissions at that time (Chrysler,GM, and B-W (later, Ford)
>> was supplying them with automatics) and the only way a Rambler got a
> 4-speed in '62 was if
>> Ford sent it to them in the form of that English thing.   If 'Vairs were
>> getting outrun in those road races, it sure wasn't because of the
>> transmissions of the day.   The Ford-import 4-speeds would have broken
>> before the race was over.   Likewise any Mopar compacts, which didn't get
>> 4-speeds til '63 (T-10) and didn't get their own (A833) in-house
>> 4-speed until '64... unless you count that ultra-rare sweet shifting
> French 4-speed
>> gearbox that went into some earlier Chrysler 300s.    In fact, the Mopar
>> compact-car 3-speed wasn't much better than the Ford compact 3-speed
>> and tended to shed a tooth or two off the cluster if you horsewhipped it.
>> Never saw a Mopar 3-speed in a Rambler...  did see T-10s in later V8
>> Ramblers though.
>>
>> It wasn't the lack of a 4-speed that caused any roadrace injustices.
>> In fact, Corvairs had 4-speeds "regular" before any of the other compacts
> in
>> the USA.   And, I know for a fact that an early Corvair gearbox, 3-speed
> or
>> otherwise, was more durable than the competition at the time.
>>
>> ...just thought I'd mention it.
>>
>> tony..
>>
>> PS:   Chrysler and Ford turned the tables on beefiness with their own
>> 4-speeds, A833 and Toploader, both of which are legendary for strength
>> and durability
>>
>>
>>
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