<VV> Early springs/Late springs
Jon Woolf
jon at jonwoolf.com
Tue May 7 12:10:37 EDT 2013
Springs are definitely better than winters and falls, too.
On 5/7/2013 9:00 AM, virtualvairs-request at corvair.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Fuel pump pressure HUMOR! (Matt Nall)
> 2. Turbo Engine Wanted (Greg Shaw)
> 3. Re: Fuel pump pressure (kenpepke at juno.com)
> 4. Re: Fuel pump pressure (Mark Durham)
> 5. Anyone seen Pete Koehler (Bob Dunahugh)
> 6. Springs was > Fuel pump pressure (BBRT)
> 7. Re: Fuel pump pressure/Beating Porsches (hallgrenn at aol.com)
> 8. Re: Fuel pump pressure (corvairduval at cox.net)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 20:48:03 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Matt Nall <patiomatt at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: <VV> Fuel pump pressure HUMOR!
> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Message-ID: <8D018D3AA679200-104C-D8EE at webmail-m151.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
>
> Maybe YOURS isn't! (GGGG)
>
> Bill
>
> On May 6, 2013, at 7:32 PM, Matt Nall <patiomatt at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> 4.2 is just fine!! these are not rocket engines!
> ==============================================================
>
>
> OH BOY!! I GET TO SAY IT FIRST!!!!
>
>
> EARLY fuelpump SPRINGS are better than LATES!!
>
>
> Matt Nall
> Charleston, Oregon
> http://tinyurl.com/The-Corvair-Patio
>
> http://tinyurl.com/Matts-Tech-Pages
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 18:26:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Greg Shaw <65vair180 at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: <VV> Turbo Engine Wanted
> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Message-ID:
> <1367889967.56797.YahooMailRC at web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Brother Doug is looking for a 150 HP turbo engine. The closer to SE Michigan
> the better. Please contact me off list with location, condition, and price.
> Thank you.
> Greg Shaw
> Dearborn,MI
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 04:23:44 GMT
> From: "kenpepke at juno.com" <kenpepke at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: <VV> Fuel pump pressure
> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Cc: corvairduval at cox.net
> Message-ID: <20130507.002344.15569.0 at webmail06.dca.untd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
>
> Well yeah, Clark was correct ... each time material is removed from the spring's length, its stiffness is increased.. So, the more the spring is cut, the more the pressure increases. And the point beyond that was that if the spring is not held captive the fuel pressure will fall to ZERO when at the point when the spring is at full length. One might get away with a little of that around town ... not on the highway.
>
> In our racing days we had springs wound to our specifications as a regular practice. Today because most of Detroit has been redued to ashes,, I am not sure I could get it done today. But fuel pump pressure is not as critical as some believe! Look how many "high pressure' problems have been cured by making the pressure a little higher.
>
> Ken P
>
> ********
>
>
> Hmmm, first you agree with Clark, then you take shortening to the extreme
> and the fuel prerssure goes to zero, which sounds more like shortening the
> spring will lower fuel pressure.
>
> As a practical matter, cutting the spring will result in lower fuel
> pressure, as will raising the height of the cover (highly impractical).
> Maybe the part that is missing is that one needs to pull the spring to
> original length after cutting the coil?
>
> We do agree, a true repair would be to buy a spring with the correct rate,
> but who can buy such a spring? Got a part number?
>
> Frank DuVal
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 21:22:28 -0700
> From: Mark Durham <62vair at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: <VV> Fuel pump pressure
> To: "kenpepke at juno.com" <kenpepke at juno.com>
> Cc: Virtual Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>, Clark Hartzel
> <chartzel at comcast.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAEEoEu4fq3u7JG753x9H+OrsE+kOF0h5kchMPodzOdHzFDw+tg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hi all, I've been tinkering with my fuel system as well due to a gas smell
> in the garage the better half is complaining about. There have been some
> great articles and comments here and elsewhere on corvair forums about the
> dynamics of the function of the needle and seat, and the size of the hole
> in them, to the size and function of the carb floats, the extra float
> assist spring, fuel level in the bowl dynamics, and off course, fuel
> pressure. I have found all of the dynamics to be true and must be
> considered.
>
> 1. My car would not idle below 850 rpm. (due to low fuel level in the bowl
> in trying to compensate for fuel smell, and a possible vacuum leak.
> 2. It would hesitate on acceleration and was a pain in the rear to drive.
> (again, to low fuel level in the bowl (which affects how much fuel can be
> sucked through the idle circiuts in that transition period before the
> accelerator pump kicks in.
> 3. It acted lean but could find no apparent air leaks.
>
> I took apart my carbs, adjust the float levels several times, and added a
> set of metal ball and seats (needle and seat) thinking the fuel pump was
> overpowering the regular needle and seat. It seemed to help a bit,
> but driveability was still poor. The fuel leak moved after adjusting the
> carb floats down a bit, to a seep at the fuel pump outlet pipe fitting, it
> was loose.
>
> I finally attacked the air leak possibility by sealing off the only other
> possibility, the PCV valve hose, and the engine was a different animal! So,
> I replaced the valve and that helped with idle issues.
>
> I bought a Spectre Performance fuel pressure regulator. It took several
> runs and adjustments to the inner set screw with an allen wrench to get the
> fuel pressure right for my engine, but it now purrs, has great
> acceleration, and no longer smokes black smoke on startup. This also solved
> the hot start issues I was having in the summer months. .
>
> Some have said the Spectre fuel pressure regulator will not last. Well,
> this has been on the car for over a year and I've had no leaks and perfect
> operation. I took it apart last winter to check the diaphram. It showed no
> degredation after a years driving. I did discover one thing, however, there
> is an inner adjustment allen screw if the outside adjustment is not enough
> to raise or lower the pressure for your engine. Simply insert a allen
> wrench in through the center of the label in the adjustment knob, find the
> set screw, and make needed adjustments to get what you need. This
> information was not provided by Clarks several years ago, but I found it on
> the Spectre web page. I sent it to clark's so they may be adding that to
> their kits now.
>
> Finally, my car is running (and smelling) like it should. It now idles
> well. And, I am getting 24 mpg. The engine is a 64-110 bored .030, with a
> Isky 270 cam with mild porting on the heads completed. Also, the chambers
> were previously welded up and machined, the spark plug moved closer to the
> exhaust valve. I have added 140 exhaust logs and dual exhaust.
>
> It runs great. There is a older Porsche 911, also red, around the lake I
> want to chase and beat!
>
> Mark Durham
>
> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 1:57 PM, <kenpepke at juno.com> wrote:
>
>> Right you are, Clark ? A spring is a spring. Removing material increases
>> the pounds / inch rate. As long as the spring is captured in a manor such
>> as the frame / moveable lower control arm or pump cap and moveable
>> diaphragm ? it will resist its compression by exerting force at its given
>> rate on both ends. If one cuts the fuel pressure spring short enough it
>> will no longer be held in compression and the force exerted will be reduced
>> to zero as will the fuel pressure.
>>
>> Ken P
>> Wyandotte, MI
>> 65 Monza 110hp 4 speed 2 door
>> Worry looks around; Sorry looks back, Faith looks up.
>>
>> ************************
>>
>> On May 6, 2013, at 3:17 PM, "Clark Hartzel" <chartzel at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Someone suggested shortening the spring to lower the pressure. Just like
>>> the coil springs on your suspension when you cut a coil off you get
>> stiffer
>>> springs not weaker. To lower fuel pressure you want a weaker spring.
>>> The cam operated pushrod compresses the spring and when the cam drops the
>>> pushrod the spring is what pressurizes the fuel.
>>> Clark Hartzel
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> of the writer, please attribute properly. For help, mailto:
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 09:13:42 -0500
> From: Bob Dunahugh <yenko108 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: <VV> Anyone seen Pete Koehler
> To: "virtualvairs at corvair.org" <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY169-W85AABC17F1A2687F1E26DB80BA0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I can't seem to find him. He has some FC parts that I gave him to sell for me, two years ago. I gave him some 1960 parts in payment for selling the FC parts. On another note. I still have a comeplete 60 heater with tail pipe for sale if anyone is interested. I've scraped most of my Corvair parts. The heater maybe in my last load of parts that will be scraped next week. Some restored Corvairs will be sold next. Thanks, Bob Dunahugh 319-521-4891
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 10:55:08 -0400
> From: "BBRT" <chsadek at comcast.net>
> Subject: <VV> Springs was > Fuel pump pressure
> To: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Message-ID: <A80446EE0EB246D6BFD7A7F47AF7AEF3 at chucksadffb6d9>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Before the digital age, actually before electronic analog circuitry, many
> devices were "powered" by springs. There were timing devices, initiators,
> sensors, etc. There were specialists who could wind springs of various
> grades/alloy of metals for specified lengths, diameter, strengths, etc. The
> expert shops could produce coil or flat springs and variations of both.
> These shops and of course, larger mfg.'s disappeared in the early 70's. Now,
> there are very few companies who still custom wind or even produce small
> precision springs. Probably companies in India, China, other emerging mfg
> nations, might be the place who can still do such work.
>
> Chuck S
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kenpepke at juno.com>
>> In our racing days we had springs wound to our specifications as a regular
>> practice. Today because most of Detroit has been redued to ashes,, I am
>> not sure I could get it done today. ...>
>> Ken P
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 11:03:26 -0400 (EDT)
> From: hallgrenn at aol.com
> Subject: Re: <VV> Fuel pump pressure/Beating Porsches
> To: 62vair at gmail.com, kenpepke at juno.com
> Cc: virtualvairs at corvair.org, chartzel at comcast.net
> Message-ID: <8D0194B28E20EB8-1E98-170BC at webmail-d256.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> In second gear you'll walk away from him. But look out later. I know from experience.
>
> Bob
>
>
> It runs great. There is a older Porsche 911, also red, around the lake I
> want to chase and beat!
>
> Mark Durham
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 11:35:09 -0400
> From: "corvairduval at cox.net" <corvairduval at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: <VV> Fuel pump pressure
> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org,
> Message-ID: <380-2201352715359491 at M2W125.mail2web.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I would like to hear of any ""Look how many "high pressure' problems have
> been cured by making the pressure a little higher"" situations that have
> actually happened, with gauge readings.
>
> Frank DuVal
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: kenpepke at juno.com kenpepke at juno.com
> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 04:23:44 GMT
> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org, corvairduval at cox.net
> Subject: Re: <VV> Fuel pump pressure
>
>
>
> Well yeah, Clark was correct ... each time material is removed from the
> spring's length, its stiffness is increased.. So, the more the spring is
> cut, the more the pressure increases. And the point beyond that was that
> if the spring is not held captive the fuel pressure will fall to ZERO when
> at the point when the spring is at full length. One might get away with a
> little of that around town ... not on the highway.
>
> In our racing days we had springs wound to our specifications as a regular
> practice. Today because most of Detroit has been redued to ashes,, I am
> not sure I could get it done today. But fuel pump pressure is not as
> critical as some believe! Look how many "high pressure' problems have been
> cured by making the pressure a little higher.
>
> Ken P
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> End of VirtualVairs Digest, Vol 100, Issue 21
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