<VV> VirtualVairs Digest, Vol 110, Issue 5
Byron LaMotte
lamotte at mris.com
Sun Mar 2 18:11:27 EST 2014
I'm probably too new to comment and not sure of the politics behind this. However put this in perspective it is a car club and all should learn to play nice in the sand box in the interest of these wonderful cars we all enjoy. I have thoroughly enjoyed this organization.
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 2, 2014, at 5:55 PM, virtualvairs-request at corvair.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Convention & Membership (Dave Keillor)
> 2. Stick Around (Mike Jacobi)
> 3. Convention & Membership (Jack Pinard)
> 4. Fw: Convention & Membership (Mel Francis)
> 5. Re: Convention & Membership (Bryan Blackwell)
> 6. Re: Convention & Membership (BBRT)
> 7. Re: Convention & Membership (Dave Keillor)
> 8. Membership (ricebugg at comcast.net)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 11:16:17 -0600
> From: Dave Keillor <dkeillor at tconcepts.com>
> Subject: Re: <VV> Convention & Membership
> To: Ned Madsen <aeroned at aol.com>
> Cc: Virtual Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAHRv0RJ0Kp0Xs+eBTi+emnOktm7wyheXei2czKBPa7bdVH61BA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Increase membership instead of driving it away? You betcha! I believe
> that with the right changes, membership could be increased 50-100%.
>
>
> Dave Keillor
>
>
>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 9:34 PM, <aeroned at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yup, I'm no longer a CORSA member. I dropped my membership after serving
>> on the CORSA board. I saw lots of ugly stuff. What do they say? If you like
>> sausage, you should watch how it's made.
>>
>> So James, I guess I can't have an opinion on what would make CORSA better?
>> If CORSA was willing to make some changes maybe it could increase
>> membership instead of driving it away. How many other former BoD members
>> are no longer CORSA members? I can think of a few besides me.
>>
>> Ned
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2014 12:40:42 -0500
> From: Mike Jacobi <mvjacobi at comcast.net>
> Subject: <VV> Stick Around
> To: virtual Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Message-ID: <CF38D74A.24C3A%mvjacobi at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> --
>
>
> Just a note from a lurker, really just a thought. It may or may not apply.
> When my wife got terminally ill and I could not arrange to have our church
> minister visit her, even though she had been the volunteer Parish Nurse for
> a long time, I quit the church. Just walked away saying..."I can't stand to
> be part of this thing".
>
> But now I realize that the easiest thing to do is to quit. The hardest
> thing to do is go back and, from the inside, try to change things.
>
> I guess this note is to encourage those who have walked away from Corsa in
> rage or in frustration....to come back and go back to work to change things
> for the better.
>
> I may not be able to change the way my church does things, but I plan to go
> back and try to change at least the ground I stand on at the time.
>
> Just a thought, your mileage may vary.
>
> Mike in snow bound, Corvairless Michigan (six feet of snow and more coming
> I hear.)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 10:08:13 -0800
> From: Jack Pinard <corvairjack at yahoo.com>
> Subject: <VV> Convention & Membership
> To: Virtual Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Message-ID: <8F58F9ED-EE9C-4BCC-8649-BD276DAA1FED at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Like Ned, I love Corvairs but witnessed the sausage makers as a Corsa board member. Paying dues is approval of operating policies that ignore democratic process. My money instead goes to entry fees for numerous parades that showcase my friends' Corvairs to an appreciative public. I suggest it is unproductive to debate conventions and membership, que sera sera.
> Jack Pinard
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 13:02:39 -0600
> From: "Mel Francis" <mfrancis at wi.rr.com>
> Subject: <VV> Fw: Convention & Membership
> To: "Dave Keillor" <dkeillor at tconcepts.com>
> Cc: virtualvairs at corvair.org, Ned Madsen <AeroNed at aol.com>
> Message-ID: <FA9A436659184F039B9B2D8A1D879E36 at DGRPB8F1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
>
>
>
>> Clubs are really about bringing people together, not membership rosters or
>> collecting dues or all the rules that go with that stuff. In the previous
>> century, the only way to get together was to collect at a building,
>> exchange greetings and then hang out together, eventually deciding what
>> the next activity would be, etc.
>>
>> That sort of stuff never really appealed to me and I was never much of a
>> 'clubby' guy. I became a member of CORSA in '72, then quit in '77 and
>> rejoined in '07, but let my membership lapse again last year, from lack of
>> club interest, even though you all know how deep my interest in Corvairs
>> goes. These days, we can all keep in touch online, over much greater
>> distances than ever before, so the need to congregate at a clubhouse has
>> become almost redundant.
>>
>> The two sites that have filled my need to interact quite well are the
>> Corvair Center Forum and Facebook. And ever since late last year, thanks
>> to Allen Amrine, the addition of the two new groups on Facebook, 'Corvair
>> Owners Group' and 'Corvair Racers', actually accomplish the job so well
>> that we can all now interact without the more rigid CORSA framework. most
>> of the guys from FastVairs are starting to meet on Corvair Racers, because
>> of the more appealing photo-based replies that occur between members of
>> that group. Yes, we're all members, but there are no dues, no elections
>> for positions of power and I think most of us like it that way.
>>
>> If we want to attract new blood to Corvairing, it will be through these
>> newer interactive online sites, where the younger auto enthusiasts already
>> are. They want to gain knowledge and share their own experiences, not
>> bound by an ancient set of rules from a previous century. I lurk at the VV
>> site, but have much more interaction at the CCF and Facebook sites because
>> of the photos
>> that are right there on a thread. A photo always bears much more
>> information than a line of text.
>>
>> In order to survive along with Corvairs, CORSA itself, has to adapt by
>> radically changing its overall format, to match the expectations of
>> today's enthusiasts, rather than those of a half century ago. I'm
>> completely in favor of CORSA conventions allowing anyone to attend, have
>> their cars judged and compete for awards, even if they aren't a member.
>> But when they purchase an entry ticket at the door or online, all this
>> other contact information should be provided, so that the new prospect,
>> non-member is encouraged to become more involved, rather than discouraged.
>>
>> Mel Francis
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave Keillor" <dkeillor at tconcepts.com>
>> To: "Ned Madsen" <aeroned at aol.com>
>> Cc: "Virtual Vairs" <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2014 11:16 AM
>> Subject: Re: <VV> Convention & Membership
>>
>>
>>> Increase membership instead of driving it away? You betcha! I believe
>>> that with the right changes, membership could be increased 50-100%.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave Keillor
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 9:34 PM, <aeroned at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yup, I'm no longer a CORSA member. I dropped my membership after serving
>>>> on the CORSA board. I saw lots of ugly stuff. What do they say? If you
>>>> like
>>>> sausage, you should watch how it's made.
>>>>
>>>> So James, I guess I can't have an opinion on what would make CORSA
>>>> better?
>>>> If CORSA was willing to make some changes maybe it could increase
>>>> membership instead of driving it away. How many other former BoD members
>>>> are no longer CORSA members? I can think of a few besides me.
>>>>
>>>> Ned
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights
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>>> of the writer, please attribute properly. For help,
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>>> This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America,
>>> http://www.corvair.org/
>>> Post messages to: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
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>>> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 15:25:24 -0500
> From: Bryan Blackwell <bryan at skiblack.com>
> Subject: Re: <VV> Convention & Membership
> To: Dave Keillor <dkeillor at tconcepts.com>
> Cc: Virtual Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Message-ID: <54A330A8-1CC2-46E0-AAD7-48EAD724D9BF at skiblack.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Could well be, but the question is not finding ideas (I've seen lots), it's who will do this work?
>
> --Bryan
>
>> On Mar 2, 2014, at 12:16 PM, Dave Keillor wrote:
>>
>> Increase membership instead of driving it away? You betcha! I believe
>> that with the right changes, membership could be increased 50-100%.
>>
>>
>> Dave Keillor
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 15:30:01 -0500
> From: "BBRT" <chsadek at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: <VV> Convention & Membership
> To: "Bryan Blackwell" <bryan at skiblack.com>, "Dave Keillor"
> <dkeillor at tconcepts.com>
> Cc: Virtual Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Message-ID: <F5D9419D0DA2440AAF62901E4BA2FF7A at chucksadffb6d9>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Part of the issue is to use Tweeter, Instagarm and Facebook. Facebook is for
> older folks as younger folks are using the others more. So CORSA needs to
> consider that.
>
> Chuck S
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bryan Blackwell" <bryan at skiblack.com>
> To: "Dave Keillor" <dkeillor at tconcepts.com>
> Cc: "Virtual Vairs" <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2014 3:25 PM
> Subject: Re: <VV> Convention & Membership
>
>
>> Could well be, but the question is not finding ideas (I've seen lots),
>> it's who will do this work?
>>
>> --Bryan
>>
>>> On Mar 2, 2014, at 12:16 PM, Dave Keillor wrote:
>>>
>>> Increase membership instead of driving it away? You betcha! I believe
>>> that with the right changes, membership could be increased 50-100%.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave Keillor
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are
>> the property
>> of the writer, please attribute properly. For help,
>> mailto:vv-help at corvair.org
>> This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America,
>> http://www.corvair.org/
>> Post messages to: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
>> Change your options:
>> http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/options/virtualvairs
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> -----
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 14:44:09 -0600
> From: Dave Keillor <dkeillor at tconcepts.com>
> Subject: Re: <VV> Convention & Membership
> To: Bryan Blackwell <bryan at skiblack.com>
> Cc: Virtual Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAHRv0R+usXH8==vo3Lqi3G46rF2_T8B2j+WT0DtFfHTjD-ne+Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> CORSA currently has no leadership and that problem must be addressed first.
> Maybe a paid CEO whose compensation is based on the number of members with
> a bonus for adding new members?
>
>
> Dave Keillor
>
>
>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Bryan Blackwell <bryan at skiblack.com> wrote:
>>
>> Could well be, but the question is not finding ideas (I've seen lots),
>> it's who will do this work?
>>
>> --Bryan
>>
>>> On Mar 2, 2014, at 12:16 PM, Dave Keillor wrote:
>>>
>>> Increase membership instead of driving it away? You betcha! I believe
>>> that with the right changes, membership could be increased 50-100%.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave Keillor
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 22:55:22 +0000 (UTC)
> From: ricebugg at comcast.net
> Subject: <VV> Membership
> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Message-ID:
> <820900732.4233185.1393800922381.JavaMail.root at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> Ned: I am well aware, probably more than you can imagine, of the grief you and others took when you were on the CORSA/CPF BoD. Don't ask how I know.
>
> I only served one stint on the CORSA/CPF BoD because my wife keep asking me, "You are doing this Why?!" as I fretted and fumed and wrote responses in my head instead of sleeping. Go review the BoD minutes in the Communiques between 1999 and 2002. Read between the lines. It was fixing to be a near blood letting. Which didn't happen, in part because I was there. Then I managed, with the help of some others, to get something fixed. Cost me at least one friendship within CPF community. Which saddens me to this day.
>
>
>
>
>
> You can have an opinion. I value your opinion. I just want you - and others - to have those opinions, and to express those opinions, within the CORSA Community. I put my mouth where my money is, stayed in CORSA after I dropped off the
> BoD, and have helped on a couple occasions for good because I knew stuff. Don't ask.
>
>
>
>
> Don't give up on CORSA just because whatever the change you want doesn't happen within the time frame you want to see it happen in. My perception is, you think the CORSA Convention should be widely open to any Corvair hobbist. Several different CORSA BoD's, made up of many different people, say no. Adjust to this reality. That hobby horse is dead, at least for the near future. I bet you don't walk away from your employer just because they say no to a position you strongly hold. Or your community and/or the state where you live. Or your country.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please reup. You too, Bob and Hank. CORSA is worth being a part of, no matter how ugly it seems - or is - at times, no matter how non-responsive it seems at times. It is not a perfect organization, because, as I recently noted, it is made up of imperfect people. Including me.
>
>
>
> And yes, I can produce a list of former BoD members who are no longer CORAS members because of multiple examples of stupid, vindictive ugly conduct by both CORSA BoD members and "normal" CORSA members. Also saddens me to this day. And I'll bet if we both worked at it, my list will be bigger than yours! Sadly bigger than yours. If you win, I'll buy you one year CORSA Membership. If you win, you buy me a beer. OH! Wait!! I don't drink swamp water!! VBG!!!
>
>
>
> Historically Yours,
> James
>
> PS: Hope you are at the PCG Workshop, as I'd like to talk to you about VLJs.
>
> PSS: And thanks for all of you who corrected what I thought I knew about aircraft museums in the Pacific NW. Opps!!
>
>
> Message: 1Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 22:34:39 -0500 (EST)From: aeroned at aol.comSubject: Re: <VV> Convention & MembershipTo: virtualvairs at corvair.orgYup, I'm no longer a CORSA member. I dropped my membership after serving on the CORSA board. I saw lots of ugly stuff. What do they say? If you like sausage, you should watch how it's made.
>
>
> So James, I guess I can't have an opinion on what would make CORSA better? If CORSA was willing to make some changes maybe it could increase membership instead of driving it away. How many other former
> BoD members are no longer CORSA members? I can think of a few besides me.
>
> Ned
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are the property
> of the writer, please attribute properly. For help, mail to: vv-help at corvair.org
> This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America, http://www.corvair.org/
> VirtualVairs at corvair.org
> http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/listinfo/virtualvairs
> Change your options: http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/options/virtualvairs
>
> End of VirtualVairs Digest, Vol 110, Issue 5
> ********************************************
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