<VV> <CORSA Chapters> CORSA blunder

S M shaun_mcgarvey at shaw.ca
Wed Jun 24 15:03:49 EDT 2015

I haven't read the rules lately, but as I understand it from memory, replacement tires are fine as long as they are roughly the correct size and roughly the correct whitewall. On a '63 I believe the original whitewall was 7/8". I think the rule gives +/- 1/8" leeway... even radials are fine. Blackwalls would have been fine too. 

People are up in arms thinking the car has to have its original tires to be called "Stock". That's not true. 
People are up in arms thinking the car will not win an award. That's not true. It will likely win a CORSA Gold award this year. 
If the owner cares to win the Preservation Award (that the car certainly deserves) he knows exactly what he needs to do for NEXT YEAR. 

It's not the end of the world, or CORSA. 

Just make sure to award the Mitchell Award to the right participant this year, PLEASE! 

yea, Vairily ... Shaun 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Corveric via VirtualVairs" <virtualvairs at corvair.org> 
To: virtualvairs at corvair.org 
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 11:20:02 AM 
Subject: Re: <VV> <CORSA Chapters> CORSA blunder 

Having followed this thread with interest, I would like to ask why could this car not have been included in the stock class and lost points for incorrect tyres? I cannot believe that there are any Corvairs in the class with original tyres, but if they are, as somebody mentioned, they are simply show tyres mounted on spare rims for this purpose only. If only factory original tyres win full points, there will soon be no more full points awarded for original tyres as they have all eroded due to natural causes over the past 50 some odd years. I am in agreement with the sentiment of Bill Hubbell but would like to add my two cents (Canadian currency so that’s really only about a penny and a half) 

The last time I thought about it, the Corvair group is the car club to which I am most attracted because they care about all aspects of the car including condition, originality, performance, driveability, and even fuel economy. I own Pontiac, Chevy Trucks, Triumphs and will have other marques in my garage at future points in my life (I dream of the day I can have a ’63 – ’65 ISO Rivolta GT in there), but I always think first of my Corvair and the Corvair community who is so supportive and positive. Please treat them well and fairly. 

There must be an answer here, but we must approach the subject objectively and evenly. While I appreciate and understand the passion of the writers, some of the comments have been over the top, even towards insulting which is uncalled for. We need to use reason and logic. For example, if at some point, the use of Coker replacement tyres has been okayed for Stock classification, we need to know why their tyres and no other tyres have been okayed. I would understand if they were the original manufacturer and the tyres were exactly the same, but these are reproduction tyres anyway. (From their website: Coker Tire Company is a Chattanooga, Tennessee-based company that manufactures and sells vintage-style Michelin, Firestone, BF Goodrich and Uniroyal bias-ply and radial whitewall tires for collector automobiles ) I believe that there needs to be some variance allowed, without it, it seems like there has been some commercial favouritism given to a sponsor or interested party. A car that is as original as the car in question should not be rejected from the group based on tyre manufacturer, rather it should lose some points for having incorrect tyres. However, if the difference is like Pepsi / Coke and I choose Pepsi where Corsa chooses Coke simply based on personal taste, I do not see that should be a demerit. There needs to be a definition made public of how and why Corsa decided on a specific manufacturer, and there needs to be parameters allowing for tyres that were not made 50 plus years ago. Why not a system where non original tyres (but original looking) are accepted and original tyres give a bonus? 

I understand and appreciate the concept of originality (my Corvair is my only non-stock vehicle) and I do understand promoting, rewarding and cherishing it, but reality says that there are parts which will not survive 50 years so they can no longer be original parts. Tyres are, without question, a part of the car which can be expected to wear out and be replaced on occasion so there needs to be a bit of allowance for that. Technology moves on and there are not a lot of tyre manufacturers that will make bias ply tires in the correct size and whitewall width for a single brand of car. Let us leave an option for a perfectly original car to be included and make a note that the tyres are not stock. What will we do when the last set of original tyres refuses to hold up a Corvair, will we retire (pun intended) the classification? I think that Corsa needs to consider this as a subject of public discussion and revision in the next year so we can allow a car like this to appear in its rightful place as an original car, changing your tyres is not really a “modification” unless there is considerable change to size and appearance. I think a refinement of the rules fifty years on is not an unreasonable idea. 

By the way, I am looking forward to somebody posting pictures from the convention so those of us who are not at it can at least see what we are missing. 

Eric Taylor 

Langley, BC, Canada 

<mailto:Corveric at me.com> Corveric at me.com 

Well said Bill. 

Fred Marsh 

Let me set the record straight and end this discussion. I am the one upsetabout this. I am the one making a fuss about it. The owner was asked byconvention organizers to bring the car here (from Arizona), to show it atConcours, having been highly profiled in both national and CORSA publications. He did not seek to come here or to designate the car as anything in particular. He did not buy this car to bring it here and win an award. The provenance ofthis car is a matter of public record and is indisputable. The fact that it isessentially a 52 year old "new" car is not in doubt. The condition of the caris amazing. It offers a rare chance to look back 52 years in time to see how acar came from the factory - imperfections and all. The knowledge it cancontribute to those few of us who have an interest in originality is a raregift. Frankly, the owner is not nearly so upset about this as I am. Onceagain CORSA has demonstrated their failure to have a venue to recognizepreservation of originality.The fact is, the only official recognition givenby CORSA to original vehicles is the presentation of a Preservation Award, givento the vehicle(s) with the high score in either (or both) Stock classes(original or restored). However, a car has no chance of competing for suchaward unless it can successfully run the gauntlet of classification, with allits arcane rules. Last time I checked, Corvairs were not delivered from thefactory with Coker tires, aftermarket splatter paint (which looks nothing likethe original), reproduction weatherstripping that doesn't seal or fit right, orreproduction batteries that are not "tar top"; yet all of these "modifications"are permitted under current CORSA stock classification rules. Factory StockRestored vehicles can even be completely stripped and repainted. The factthat a car "fresh" from the showroom floor, but 52 years late being delivered,might need new tires, (or filters, battery, or even shocks, brakes, etc), is notsurprising and should not reduce its value as an otherwise original car. Itshould be possible to see past those imperfections to note the value of the restof the car. Here is a car where you can see original paint, originalupholstery, original hardware, original overspray, original exhaust system,original tire (yes, the spare) - all in pristine, UNRESTORED condition. Tofail to recognize this car as something special - that is the point. It definesour club as one that doesn't care about such things. Instead, we willrecognize those who over-restore, over-polish, and replace old, original partsthat could have been preserved with new, imperfect reproductions and we willcall them "winners". We will celebrate the cars that drive the fastest, getthe best mileage, navigate tricky courses, have the hardest luck. We won't,however, recognize and celebrate our heritage - not even when it is staring us in the face. 

Bill HubbellPresident, Stock Corvair Group, and one of a fewremaining CORSA members who "give a damn" about preserving and recognizingoriginality. 

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