<VV> Spanish Greenbrier Scam?

Hugo Miller hugo at aruncoaches.co.uk
Thu Jan 9 19:47:34 EST 2020

All sound advice of course. But I have bought dozens of cars over the 
years sight unseen and never been caught. I have had winners and losers, 
but only once did I find a car that was much worse than I expected, but 
that wasn't due to any criminal or dishonest intent - it's just that the 
camera always makes things look better than they are. And I actually 
sold it on at a profit!
But this situation is very strange indeed, primarily because of the 
amount of info I have from the seller, and the fact that the seller 
apeared willing to meet me in Spain and let me drive the car home (to 
England). I wouldn't expect the seller to accept Paypal, due to the 
commission, but I was surprised he didn't want cash. So I sent him a 
bank transfer, with some trepidation, I must admit. But I thought I'd 
take a chance on it. I went into it with my eyes open so I'm not asking 
for sympathy.
If I were a scammer I would pick a $50,000 BMW not a $7,000 oddity that 
only has a niche market. And I wouldn't post my name, address, bank 
details and photograph on eBay! Nor would I refuse cash!
The seller was complainng about having to sell it for what he described 
a half its true value, and my first thought was that he had relisted it 
in the hope of getting a better price so he could blow me out. But the 
second time I 'bought' it, it sold for even less money (6,600 Euro), and 
he is treating that as a genuine sale and is waiting for me to pay him.
This has become so intriguing that I want to get to the bottom of it. 
Spain is only a two hour flight from here, and I have a nice youg lady 
who speaks Spanish who has volunteered to accompany me and act as my 
Trouble is I was due to fly to Florida on Monday so that adds to the 

On 2020-01-09 22:05, roboman91324 at aol.com wrote:
> Hugo,
> When you say "bought it" can I assume you were the winner on Ebay but
> you had not yet paid for it? If cash has already changed hands, good
> luck. You may very well be screwed. Just as a general warning, people
> should always use the PayPal option for payment or at least agree 
> that
> no money will change hands until you see the vehicle. If the seller
> doesn't follow through, you have recourse with PayPal. In a "sight
> unseen" situation I always use great caution and never send 
> cash/money
> orders. I bought a Corsa on Ebay some years ago and didn't have the
> time to inspect the vehicle before the end of the auction. Even 
> though
> the auction stated that payment was due upon close of auction, I had
> an agreement with the seller that I would not pay until I was on 
> site.
> After the auction ended, the seller started harassing me for payment
> before I could get there. When I finally got to see the vehicle, it
> was complete crap. The guy was a genius with camera angles. Rot 
> around
> the windshield and back light didn't show up in the pictures. The
> listing stated "No radio." but when I saw it, the radio appeared to
> have been removed with a fire ax. The billowing smoke that was
> supposedly due to an oil leak onto the exhaust turned out to be 
> coming
> from inside the exhaust and not off of the exhaust. The included 
> spare
> 140 engine that was supposedly complete and newly rebuilt was neither
> complete nor rebuilt. There was so much more. The guy tried to
> intimidate me into going through with the deal but I didn't. I was 
> out
> the cost of a trailer rental and my time but the silver lining is 
> that
> I went on to buy a Canadian Corsa that had much greater value. I had 
> a
> similar experience with a Sun Bug. I wish that had been real. People
> can be very creative with pics and descriptions. If you can't get to
> view the vehicle before placing a bid, make sure to get an agreement
> that no money will change hands until you see the vehicle. This
> includes significant deposits. I bought and paid for a vintage water
> injection system that turned out to be bogus. Even with payment
> through PayPal, it was a nightmare getting my money back.
> It may be that the seller wasn't happy with the final bid and just
> didn't follow through. If that is the case, contact Ebay and they 
> will
> lock his newest auction down.
> As far as heading to Spain ... Are you headed there anyway? If your
> trip to Spain is specifically to track down the seller, the cost may
> be more than the value you may get out of the trip. Besides, if the
> guy is a criminal and you find him, you may be putting yourself in
> danger.
> Can you give us a link to the Ebay auction or at least post a few
> pics of the vehicle? Perhaps someone will recognize the van and/or 
> the
> seller and let you know who the real owner is.
> Good luck,
> Doc
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  In a message dated 1/9/2020 9:00:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> virtualvairs-request at corvair.org [5] writes:
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 16:39:04 +0000
>> From: Hugo Miller <hugo at aruncoaches.co.uk [1]>
>> To: Bryan Blackwell <bryan at skiblack.com [2]>
>> Cc: <virtualvairs at corvair.org [3]>
>> Subject: Re: <VV> Spanish Greenbrier scam?
>> Message-ID: <14e351d920d2cb36d97dabca7dced9bb at aruncoaches.co.uk
>> [4]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>> That is very interesting. Why do you say it is clealy not a factory
>> stamping? The title documents all show a 5 not an S also. Surely
>> it's
>> easier to switch the VIN plate than to stamp a fresh number by
>> hand?
>> There is, I believe, a hidden VIN stamping under the chassis. But
>> before
>> I can check that, I need to find the van!
>> But there is more to this story. I bought this van on eBay and it
>> was
>> spposed to be delivered earlier this week. The seller has now gone
>> to
>> ground. But on Monday I discovered it was listed on ebay again, so
>> I
>> bought it a second time, using my US ebay identity (I'm in the UK
>> right
>> now). I am currently stringing the seller along to try & get to the
>> bottom of it all.
>> He has posted detailed pics of the van, and of all the documents.
>> He
>> even posted pictures of himself. I have his address (purportedly)
>> and I
>> have his bank details. These are very odd actions for a scammer.
>> But on
>> the other hand, I don't have my van!
>> I'm planning a trip to Spain next week.
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:hugo at aruncoaches.co.uk
> [2] mailto:bryan at skiblack.com
> [3] mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org
> [4] mailto:14e351d920d2cb36d97dabca7dced9bb at aruncoaches.co.uk
> [5] mailto:virtualvairs-request at corvair.org

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