<CORSA Chapters> [Corsabod] CORSA - Statement on TImed Event Insurance

Mon Apr 3 06:31:52 EDT 2023

Thank you both for your explaination,  it is indeed a sad turn of events. I
do have a follow-up question however. I am currently developing a poker
rally for my local clubs, and should a member become involved (or worse
yet, cause) an accident while participating in this rally,  and one of the
parties decides to pursue legal action against me or the club officers,
would CORSA's insurance cover this, or am I on my own?  This may impact my
plans as well as anyone else putting similar events together.  Thank you.

Titus, DeLinda and I miss you and the Orlando club. If you're ever in the
area, please feel free to stop by, spend the night or longer.

George Jones

On Mon, Apr 3, 2023, 12:06 AM Titus Stewart <govairs at aol.com> wrote:

> Hello George,
>
> I also say "Thanks" for your comments and questions. I will add a few
> things to what Allan has already mentioned.
>
> This decision is disappointing in that it will stop local clubs and Corsa
> from encouraging young ones and all Corvair owners from experiencing the
> performance side of the car and being better drivers.  I am fairly certain
> it will meet higher costs for the insurance to cover the National
> autocross. The insurance purchased is to cover the property that the
> autocross is run on, so rallies and economy runs ( being run on public
> roads ) do not need to be covered. Fun-kana's are generally scored in
> points so again, insurance should not be required.
>
> Titus
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Allan Lacki via Corsabod <corsabod at corvair.org>
> To: 65crownv8 at gmail.com <65crownv8 at gmail.com>
> Cc: chapters at corvair.org <chapters at corvair.org>; corsabod at corvair.org <
> corsabod at corvair.org>; corsacluboffice at gmail.com <
> corsacluboffice at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tue, Mar 28, 2023 10:00 am
> Subject: Re: [Corsabod] <CORSA Chapters> CORSA - Statement on TImed Event
> Insurance
>
> Hi George,
>
> Thanks for your comments and for posing your questions about the
> "Statement".   The response below represents my own personal perspective
> although I think Titus and the rest of the CORSA Board will agree with the
> details.
>
>
> Coverage for National and Regional Conventions.
>
> Yes, I think the attached statement affects the national and regional
> conventions.  I'm sure CORSA will continue to have timed events at the
> national and regional level, but in each case, the host chapters will need
> to apply for a one-day / one-event policy.
>
>
> Why Did We Issue the Statement?
>
> According to our general liability insurance policy, any claims involving
> the use of aircraft, watercraft or autos are excluded from coverage.
> According to the definitions in the policy, an "auto" is either (a) A
> land motor vehicle, trailer or semitrailer designed for travel on public
> roads, including any attached machinery or equipment; or (b) Any other
> land vehicle that is subject to a compulsory or financial responsibility
> law or other motor vehicle insurance law where it is licensed or
> principally garaged.
>
> It may be argued that vehicles intended for competition - such as some
> autocross cars - do not qualify as "autos" according to the definition in
> our policy.  However, they are excluded from coverage nonetheless because
> they qualify under the policy as "mobile equipment", and mobile equipment
> is not covered by our general policy when it is used for  "prearranged
> racing, speed, demolition,or stunting activity".
>
>
> What Does Our Agent Say?
>
> We asked our insurance agent at JC Taylor to clarify the meaning of all
> this.  He replied that "Racing includes any timed auto event such as autocross,
> timed rallies, blindfold driving contests, low speed driving contests".
> Does that apply only to mobile equipment, or does it apply to autos, too?
> With regard to that, he simply said we need to look to the exclusions
> written into the policy.
>
> You may be wondering why his answers are so vague.  I think it's because
> there have been so few claims processed for any of these events, so there
> is little if any precedence to go by.  For what it's worth, his employer
> - JC Taylor - does not offer any kind of policy for any of these kinds of
> events.
>
> During our research, we needed to look elsewhere and, as noted in the
> "Statement", the pickings were slim and expensive.  One agent we spoke to -
> and there were several - noted that the few insurance companies that
> offered autocross insurance have dropped "that part of their book" so that
> only one or two are left.
>
>
> What About Other Clubs?
>
> We even reached out to other clubs that conduct autocross events and,
> aside from SCCA regional clubs, they are in the same boat as us.  They are
> paying between $400 to $600 for a one-day policy.  That's easy to justify
> if you can spread this across 100 drivers.  Not so easy for a small event
> drawing say 30.
>
> Getting back to the SCCA - SCCA has a master agreement with an insurance
> company named K&K, but the SCCA regions conduct autocross events frequently
> all across the country so the risks are spread far and wide.  This enables
> K&K to give the SCCA parent organization gives them a break on the price,
> and the SCCA parent organization passes on the savings to its regions.
> They are in a different position than CORSA.  Yes, we approached K&K for a
> similar deal, but their offer didn't do much for us.
>
>
> Why Do We Say "Timed Events"?
>
> Although it is used in the industry, the term "timed event" does not
> appear anywhere in our general liability policy.
>
> But I think the CORSA Board is of the opinion there is so little risk with
> rallies and econo-runs as to make specialized insurance unnecessary.  (I'm
> hoping that if anybody on the Board disagrees, they'll pipe up now.  We've
> discussed this in our meetings more than once).
>
> The few specialty insurance companies that offer policies for autocross
> also offer policies for rallies, economy runs, and even parades, but that
> doesn't mean we must get insurance for them.  And that is why we limited
> the statement to "timed events", which we deem to be autocross in
> particular and any other event where the fastest time determines the winner.
>
> Allan Lacki
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Jones <65crownv8 at gmail.com>
> To: Allan Lacki <redbat01 at verizon.net>
> Cc: CORSA Chapters <chapters at corvair.org>; CORSA/CPF BoD <
> corsabod at corvair.org>; Paul Bergstrom <corsacluboffice at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tue, Mar 28, 2023 8:29 am
> Subject: Re: <CORSA Chapters> CORSA - Statement on TImed Event Insurance
>
> Allan & Titus,
>
> Thank you for your efforts in this very frustrating matter.
>
> I'm wondering how this will impact the CORSA International Convention and
> any regional mini-conventions? Will this apply to Rallies and econo-runs as
> well? What about fun-kana's?
>
> Again, thank you for pursuing this, I know it applies to relatively few
> CORSA members, but those few are very passionate.
>
> George Jones
> CORSA Member since 1988
> CORSA/SC
>
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 7:49 AM Allan Lacki via Chapters <
> chapters at corvair.org> wrote:
>
> STATEMENT ON INSURANCE FOR AUTOCROSS AND OTHER TIMED EVENTS
>
>
>
> CORSA has extensively investigated the availability of timedevent
> insurance and regrets to inform its chapters that insurance companiesthat
> offer general liability policies for clubs like ours now exclude
> timedevents from the types of coverage they provide. Specialty policies
> covering multiple timed events are available, butthey are prohibitively
> expensive and unwieldly to administer, especially inlight of the few
> chapters that continue to host them.  Any chapter planning to conduct a
> timed eventmust negotiate its own insurance to cover it either by buying it
> directly orpartnering with another club that already has it.  CORSA will
> continue to offer generalliability insurance for non-timed events hosted by
> chapters.  CORSA can assist with insurancequestions.  Contact board members
> AllanLacki (redbat01 at verizon.net) or Titus Stewart (govairs at aol.com).
>
>
>
> Posted by Allan Lacki for CORSA
> P.S.  "Timed Event" means autocross and similar events where competitive
> rank is based either whole or in part on timing.  The quest to find an
> acceptable insurance policy for timed events has been ongoing continuously
> for nearly two years.
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