Fw: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
Bill Hubbell
whubbell at cox.net
Tue Oct 25 22:47:50 EDT 2005
Eh. I just copied the words from the Ditzler chart.
I am not sure about the steering wheels. I have been told by somebody (maybe Larry Claypool?) that they were originally flat, like the dash, but get polished by handling. I have never really believed this, though.
You may be right about the steering wheel. I wondered what the 60% gloss Dark Blue, Aqua, and Medium Fawn paints were for. As for the Red, Black, Saddle wheels, I don't know for sure, but I think that they did not have two tones (Black/Black would look rather dull, wouldn't it?).
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: chevrobilia at juno.com
To: whubbell at umich.edu
Cc: scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
Wow, you've been busy! Really good job, and I think you're almost there.
The descriptions of the various 60% areas may need to be polished a bit and commented on by everyone, based on their cars. What do you mean by "Tailgate window opening"? I like the one "Garish Molding" though...you should leave that in!
You left out the steering wheel, which I believe should be 60% gloss. I think at least some 64 Spyder & Monza interior used two tone steering wheels, didn't they? Obviously black didn't. The darker color on two-tone wheels would be the majority of the wheel, I think, with only the lighter color used on the top and bottom sections.
This could explain the three 60% gloss listings in Chevy's interior paint chart for the darker interior colors: Dark Blue 60% Gloss Ditzler #96221;
Dark Aqua 60% Gloss Ditzler 9012-L; and Medium Fawn 60% Gloss Ditzler 4527-L. Perhaps these were the main steering wheel colors.
There aren't any listings for a Dark Red 60% Gloss or Dark Saddle 60% Gloss, so perhaps Red and Saddle Spyder & Monza interiors didn't use two-tone wheels? Or perhaps those colors were omitted in error? It would be interesting to keep track of which interior colors out there actually have two-tone steering wheels.
You're making great progress!
Dave
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:59:16 -0400 "Bill Hubbell" <whubbell at cox.net> writes:
OK, How this? (Attached File)
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: chevrobilia at juno.com
To: whubbell at umich.edu
Cc: scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
Bill,
Yes, of course, that should be the goal...to nail down the paint codes for each interior area and component. The attached Interior Paint chart should help. Fortunately there were only two types of interior paint in '64: semi-gloss (60% gloss, shown as "60" in the chart) and Flat (0% gloss).
Note that there's no Flat Ivory listed since Ivory was used on the door metal only, as 60% gloss.
A body plate database will be a great tool.
I can tell you that the body plate change occurred somewhere between 10A and 10E. I have three 10A plates and they're all the first design. The change should be easy to pin down.
All: the first design used a stamped border ridge all the way around the perimeter of the plate, and the second design had the ridge on the top and bottom sides only. There were other differences, but that's the most obvious.
Keep up the great work,
Dave
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:36:50 -0400 "Bill Hubbell" <whubbell at cox.net> writes:
Thanks for the clarification Dave. That makes sense as you write it - still is nice to try to match the paint codes with the paint, however, especially for somebody working on a restoration.
I do not have a firm fix on the changeover in '64 Body Plate style yet. I would like to see that and many other projects worked out by compiling a database -- I have a very crude one in the Excel file. As we get more organized, it would be nice to take photos of each Corvair's Body Plates and store them in a database along with other key photos of the car, so as to help date mid-year changes, etc.
I would like to take this opportunity to encourage all SCG members to begin taking those digital photos. Don't limit your research to just your own cars - get out and photograph your club members' cars.
Take photos of the Body Plate, VIN plate, and detail photos of anything else that catches your eye.
We are especially interested in options or changes in design, etc.
If you do not have the space to store the digital files, send them to me -- I seem to be collecting Hard Drives lately (I have about a Terabyte of HD space now). Eventually we will get them into the database.
Bill Hubbell
SCG President
----- Original Message -----
From: chevrobilia at juno.com
To: whubbell at umich.edu
Cc: crawfordrose at msn.com ; scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
Bill,
It's easy to get confused using the Ditzler and other paint supplier charts. Their application data is secondhand and can't always be relied on.
Let's start with the basics, even though I think you've figured some of this out:
The letter codes indicate the color of the painted metal in the interior, which often includes gloss, semi-gloss and gloss finishes, sometimes in more than one shade, depending on the year. Most of the time the dash is a darker shade than the door paint, and you'll also see the contrast in two-tone steering wheels.
So the "F", for example, refers to ALL the component shades of Fawn interior paint that are used with RPO 758 Fawn Trim (upholstery) in Spyders & Monzas, RPO 757 in 700s and RPO 764 in 500s for 1964.
There is only one "F".
Code Q was definitely used on Corvairs: the door metal and trim (door panels & seat upholstery) were Ivory, and the dash, steering wheel, kick panels, and carpet were red. Q is correctly referred to by Chevy as "White/Red" because it is made up of Ivory and red paint! The trim code was RPO 727.
Because Q/727 was so unique, it was only available with 5 exterior colors: Black, White, both reds and (this one I'd love to see!) Satin Silver!
So, it's all very simple:
A = Aqua
B = Blue
C = Saddle
D = Red
E = Black
F = Fawn
Q = White/Red
Have you done any research on the two different 64 body plate designs? It looks to me like the second design 64 body plate came in at the end of October. I have a 10E plate coded "OE" with no "64" in the Style...looks like a goof in the transition. All my plates 11B and later are the new style, with the interior paint code letter below the word "PAINT" rather than as a "-X" suffix after the exterior paint code.
Hope this helps,
Dave
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:20:13 -0400 "Bill Hubbell" <whubbell at cox.net> writes:
OK, if I put all the letter codes in the Ditzler paint chart, it looks like this: Is it correct?
The Ditzler chart says Ivory is not used on Corvair, so is code Q really for ivory?
The only car I know of with code Q is Smitty's "Grape" which has White painted interior with dark red dash. Could the Ditzler chart be wrong about Ivory?
Are you saying that F is the code for Light Fawn as well as for Medium Fawn? How would they tell which one to use?
Bill
These charts taken from Ditzler Paint Chart - 1964 Chevrolet
Chevrolet Interior Colors - All Models
Gloss Colors
USED ON:
Windshield, Upper and Side Garish Moldings, Windshield Header Molding and Frame, Door Window Inner Frames, Door Inner Panel, (Belt Area) Rear Quarter Window Garnish Moldings - front and upper. Rear Quarter Inner Panel. (Belt Area) Back Window Garnish Molding. Tailgate Window opening, Upper and Side Garnish Molding. Radio Auxiliary Speaker Grille Assembly. Rear Seat Back Radio Speaker Support. Folding Top Dust Boot Retainer. Folding Top Parts. Seat Parts. Spare Tire Well Parts.
COLOR NAME
DL DITZLER
CODE
Q
**
Ivory
8259
E
Black
9248
B
Medium Blue Poly.
12531
A
Medium Aqua Poly.
12533
C
Medium Saddle Poly.
22162
F
Medium Fawn Poly.
22454
Light Fawn
22459
***
Silver Poly.
32176
***
Medium Olive Poly.
43294
D
Medium Red
71276
USED ON:
Rear Trunk Compartment
DX-1676
Chevrolet Interior Colors - All Models
Flat Colors
USED ON:
Instrument Panel and Steering Column Parts, Windshield, Lower Garnish Molding, Radio Speaker Grill
COLOR NAME
DIA DITZLER
CODE
**
Black
9317
Dark Aqua Poly.
12753
Dark Blue Poly.
12754
Dark Saddle
22306
Medium Fawn
22455
**
Dark Green Poly.
43295
Dark Red
71360
** Not used on Corvair
*** Not used on 5000 Series, Corvair or Chevy II
----- Original Message -----
From: chevrobilia at juno.com
To: whubbell at umich.edu
Cc: crawfordrose at msn.com ; scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
Bill,
Thanks! Here are the other letter codes:
D = Red, all models
C = Saddle
F is for all Fawn in all models
Dave
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:32:06 -0400 "Bill Hubbell" <whubbell at cox.net> writes:
Here is a Word file I made once which contains the paint codes for 1964 interiors. I took the information off the paint chip chart I mentioned below. It does not reference the single letter codes used on the body plates, but we are generally able to translate those codes. For instance, we know that:
A=medium Aqua Poly. (12533)
B=Medium Blue Poly (12531)
E=Black (9248)
F=Fawn (but I'm not sure which one)
Q=Ivory (8259)
I am still looking for the rest of the letter codes
I have also attached my database (Excel file) of Corvair VINs, body Tags, and options. I am always looking to add to this file. Of course, it would be better to put it in a true database file, but that has to wait until we get the SCG database up and running.
Bill
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