Fw: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
Dave Ellis
dellis1 at rochester.rr.com
Wed Oct 26 15:40:27 EDT 2005
My aqua in and out 64 convert has a 2 tone wheel....sample size of
one....dme out...
----- Original Message -----
From: <chevrobilia at juno.com>
To: <Richard.W.Thompson at usa.dupont.com>
Cc: <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>; <scg-list-bounces at tiger.skiblack.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
> Thanks Rich! That confirms what we'd thought. So then, the next question
> would be to confirm that aqua, blue, and fawn did have two tone wheels.
> Dave
>
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:41:40 -0400 Richard W Thompson
> <Richard.W.Thompson at usa.dupont.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>> On steering wheels: all gloss levels were at 60%. Formulas on the
>> paints
>> (at least the DuPont colors) relfect that. No flats. They do become
>> glossier with handling, skin oils, etc. over time and use. Since I
>> restore
>> steeirng wheels from time to time for members and others, I am very
>> familiar with the colors and glosses.
>>
>> Black, red, and saddle wheels for the corresponding interiors were
>> solid
>> colors, not two tones. DuPont records show this and I have seen same
>> on
>> cars that I have owned and other cars I have seen.
>>
>> For what it is worth.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> chevrobilia at juno.
>>
>> com
>>
>> Sent by:
>> To
>> scg-list-bounces@ whubbell at umich.edu
>>
>> tiger.skiblack.co
>> cc
>> m scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
>>
>>
>> Subject
>> Re: Fw: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
>>
>> 10/25/2005 11:18
>>
>> PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> I believe all Corvair steering wheels for all years were 60%. The
>> black
>> ones, especially '65s, were very glossy. They have to have gloss, or
>> finger
>> oil would make them look lousy after awhile.
>>
>> I have a hunch that black (duh!), Saddle and Red didn't use the
>> two tone
>> wheels. Only "reports from the field" will confirm!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:47:50 -0400 "Bill Hubbell"
>> <whubbell at cox.net>
>> writes:
>> Eh. I just copied the words from the Ditzler chart.
>>
>> I am not sure about the steering wheels. I have been told by
>> somebody
>> (maybe Larry Claypool?) that they were originally flat, like the
>> dash, but
>> get polished by handling. I have never really believed this,
>> though.
>>
>> You're may be right about the steering wheel. I wondered what
>> the 60%
>> gloss Dark Blue, Aqua, and Medium Fawn paints were for. As for the
>> Red,
>> Black, Saddle wheels, I don't know for sure, but I think that
>> they did
>> not have two tones (Black/Black would look rather dull, wouldn't
>> it?).
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: chevrobilia at juno.com
>> To: whubbell at umich.edu
>> Cc: scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: Fw: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
>>
>> Wow, you've been busy! Really good job, and I think you're
>> almost
>> there.
>>
>> The descriptions of the various 60% areas may need to be polished
>> a bit
>> and commented on by everyone, based on their cars. What do you
>> mean by
>> "Tailgate window opening"? I like the one "Garish Molding"
>> though...you
>> should leave that in!
>>
>> You're left out the steering wheel, which I believe should be
>> 60%
>> gloss. I think at least some 64 Spyder & Monza interior used two
>> tone
>> steering wheels, didn't they? Obviously black didn't. The darker
>> color on
>> two-tone wheels would be the majority of the wheel, I think,
>> with only
>> the lighter color used on the top and bottom sections.
>>
>> This could explain the three 60% gloss listings in Chevy's
>> interior paint
>> chart for the darker interior colors: Dark Blue 60% Gloss Ditzler
>> #96221;
>> Dark Aqua 60% Gloss Ditzler 9012-L; and Medium Fawn 60% Gloss
>> Ditzler
>> 4527-L. Perhaps these were the main steering wheel colors.
>>
>> There aren't any listings for a Dark Red 60% Gloss or Dark Saddle
>> 60%
>> Gloss, so perhaps Red and Saddle Spyder & Monza interiors didn't
>> use
>> two-tone wheels? Or perhaps those colors were omitted in error? It
>> would
>> be interesting to keep track of which interior colors out there
>> actually
>> have two-tone steering wheels.
>>
>> You're making great progress!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:59:16 -0400 "Bill Hubbell"
>> <whubbell at cox.net>
>> writes:
>> OK, How this? (Attached File)
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: chevrobilia at juno.com
>> To: whubbell at umich.edu
>> Cc: scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: Fw: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
>>
>> Bill,
>> Yes, of course, that should be the goal...to nail down the paint
>> codes
>> for each interior area and component. The attached Interior
>> Paint chart
>> should help. Fortunately there were only two types of interior
>> paint in
>> '64: semi-gloss (60% gloss, shown as "60" in the chart) and Flat
>> (0%
>> gloss).
>>
>> Note that there's no Flat Ivory listed since Ivory was used on
>> the door
>> metal only, as 60% gloss.
>>
>> A body plate database will be a great tool.
>>
>> I'M can tell you that the body plate change occurred somewhere
>> between
>> 10A and 10E. I'M have three 10A plates and they're all the
>> first
>> design. The change should be easy to pin down.
>>
>> All: the first design used a stamped border ridge all the way
>> around
>> the perimeter of the plate, and the second design had the ridge
>> on the
>> top and bottom sides only. There were other differences, but
>> that's the
>> most obvious.
>>
>> Keep up the great work,
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:36:50 -0400 "Bill Hubbell"
>> <whubbell at cox.net>
>> writes:
>> Thanks for the clarification Dave. That makes sense as you
>> write it -
>> still is nice to try to match the paint codes with the paint,
>> however,
>> especially for somebody working on a restoration.
>>
>> I'M do not have a firm fix on the changeover in '64 Body Plate
>> style
>> yet. I'M would like to see that and many other projects worked
>> out by
>> compiling a database -- I'M have a very crude one in the Excel
>> file.
>> As we get more organized, it would be nice to take photos of
>> each
>> Corvair's Body Plates and store them in a database along with
>> other
>> key photos of the car, so as to help date mid-year changes,
>> etc.
>>
>> I'M would like to take this opportunity to encourage all SCG
>> members
>> to begin taking those digital photos. Don't limit your
>> research to
>> just your own cars - get out and photograph your club members'
>> cars.
>>
>> Take photos of the Body Plate, VIN plate, and detail photos of
>> anything else that catches your eye.
>>
>> We are especially interested in options or changes in design,
>> etc.
>>
>> If you do not have the space to store the digital files, send
>> them to
>> me -- I'M seem to be collecting Hard Drives lately (I'M have
>> about a
>> Terabyte of HD space now). Eventually we will get them into
>> the
>> database.
>>
>> Bill Hubbell
>> SCG President
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: chevrobilia at juno.com
>> To: whubbell at umich.edu
>> Cc: crawfordrose at msn.com ; scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 4:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: Fw: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
>>
>> Bill,
>> It's easy to get confused using the Ditzler and other paint
>> supplier
>> charts. Their application data is secondhand and can't always
>> be
>> relied on.
>>
>> Let's start with the basics, even though I think you've
>> figured some
>> of this out:
>>
>> The letter codes indicate the color of the painted metal in
>> the
>> interior, which often includes gloss, semi-gloss and gloss
>> finishes,
>> sometimes in more than one shade, depending on the year. Most
>> of the
>> time the dash is a darker shade than the door paint, and
>> you'll also
>> see the contrast in two-tone steering wheels.
>>
>> So the "F", for example, refers to ALL the component shades of
>> Fawn
>> interior paint that are used with RPO 758 Fawn Trim
>> (upholstery) in
>> Spyders & Monzas, RPO 757 in 700s and RPO 764 in 500s for
>> 1964.
>>
>> There is only one "F".
>>
>> Code Q was definitely used on Corvairs: the door metal and
>> trim (door
>> panels & seat upholstery) were Ivory, and the dash, steering
>> wheel,
>> kick panels, and carpet were red. Q is correctly referred to
>> by Chevy
>> as "White/Red" because it is made up of Ivory and red paint!
>> The trim
>> code was RPO 727.
>>
>> Because Q/727 was so unique, it was only available with 5
>> exterior
>> colors: Black, White, both reds and (this one I'd love to
>> see!) Satin
>> Silver!
>>
>> So, it's all very simple:
>>
>> A = Aqua
>> B = Blue
>> C = Saddle
>> D = Red
>> E = Black
>> F = Fawn
>> Q = White/Red
>>
>> Have you done any research on the two different 64 body plate
>> designs? It looks to me like the second design 64 body plate
>> came in
>> at the end of October. I have a 10E plate coded "OE" with no
>> "64" in
>> the Style...looks like a goof in the transition. All my plates
>> 11B
>> and later are the new style, with the interior paint code
>> letter
>> below the word "PAINT" rather than as a "-X" suffix after the
>> exterior paint code.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:20:13 -0400 "Bill Hubbell"
>> <whubbell at cox.net>
>> writes:
>> OK, if I put all the letter codes in the Ditzler paint chart,
>> it
>> looks like this: Is it correct?
>> The Ditzler chart says Ivory is not used on Corvair, so is
>> code Q
>> really for ivory?
>> The only car I know of with code Q is Smitty's "Grape" which
>> has
>> White painted interior with dark red dash. Could the Ditzler
>> chart
>> be wrong about Ivory?
>>
>> Are you saying that F is the code for Light Fawn as well as
>> for
>> Medium Fawn? How would they tell which one to use?
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> These charts taken from Ditzler Paint Chart ? 1964
>> Chevrolet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Chevrolet
>>
>> Interior
>>
>> Colors ? All
>>
>> Models
>>
>> Gloss Colors
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> USED ON: Winds
>>
>> hield
>>
>> ,
>>
>> Upper
>>
>> and
>>
>> Side
>>
>> Garis
>>
>> h
>>
>> Moldi
>>
>> ngs,
>>
>> Winds
>>
>> hield
>>
>> Heade
>>
>> r
>>
>> Moldi
>>
>> ng
>>
>> and
>>
>> Frame
>>
>> ,
>>
>> Door
>>
>> Windo
>>
>> w
>>
>> Inner
>>
>> Frame
>>
>> s,
>>
>> Door
>>
>> Inner
>>
>> Panel
>>
>> ,
>>
>> (Belt
>>
>> Area)
>>
>> Rear
>>
>> Quart
>>
>> er
>>
>> Windo
>>
>> w
>>
>> Garni
>>
>> sh
>>
>> Moldi
>>
>> ngs ?
>>
>> front
>>
>> and
>>
>> upper
>>
>> .
>>
>> Rear
>>
>> Quart
>>
>> er
>>
>> Inner
>>
>> Panel
>>
>> .
>>
>> (Belt
>>
>> Area)
>>
>> Back
>>
>> Windo
>>
>> w
>>
>> Garni
>>
>> sh
>>
>> Moldi
>>
>> ng.
>>
>> Tailg
>>
>> ate
>>
>> Windo
>>
>> w
>>
>> openi
>>
>> ng,
>>
>> Upper
>>
>> and
>>
>> Side
>>
>> Garni
>>
>> sh
>>
>> Moldi
>>
>> ng.
>>
>> Radio
>>
>> Auxil
>>
>> iary
>>
>> Speak
>>
>> er
>>
>> Grill
>>
>> e
>>
>> Assem
>>
>> bly.
>>
>> Rear
>>
>> Seat
>>
>> Back
>>
>> Radio
>>
>> Speak
>>
>> er
>>
>> Suppo
>>
>> rt.
>>
>> Foldi
>>
>> ng
>>
>> Top
>>
>> Dust
>>
>> Boot
>>
>> Retai
>>
>> ner.
>>
>> Foldi
>>
>> ng
>>
>> Top
>>
>> Parts
>>
>> .
>>
>> Seat
>>
>> Parts
>>
>> .
>>
>> Spare
>>
>> Tire
>>
>> Well
>>
>> Parts
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> DL
>> DITZLER
>> COLOR
>> CODE
>> NAME
>>
>>
>>
>> Q ** Ivory
>> 8259
>>
>>
>> E Black
>> 9248
>>
>>
>> B Medium Blue Poly.
>> 12531
>>
>>
>> A Medium Aqua Poly.
>> 12533
>>
>>
>> C Medium Saddle Poly.
>> 22162
>>
>>
>> F Medium Fawn Poly.
>> 22454
>>
>>
>> Light Fawn
>> 22459
>>
>>
>> *** Silver Poly.
>> 32176
>>
>>
>> *** Medium Olive Poly.
>> 43294
>>
>>
>> D Medium Red
>> 71276
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> USED ON: Rear
>> DX-1676
>> Trunk
>>
>> Compa
>>
>> rtmen
>>
>> t
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Chevrolet
>>
>> Interior
>>
>> Colors ? All
>>
>> Models
>>
>> Flat Colors
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> USED ON: Instr
>>
>> ument
>>
>> Panel
>>
>> and
>>
>> Steer
>>
>> ing
>>
>> Colum
>>
>> n
>>
>> Parts
>>
>> ,
>>
>> Winds
>>
>> hield
>>
>> ,
>>
>> Lower
>>
>> Garni
>>
>> sh
>>
>> Moldi
>>
>> ng,
>>
>> Radio
>>
>> Speak
>>
>> er
>>
>> Grill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> DIA
>> DITZLER
>> COLOR
>> CODE
>> NAME
>>
>>
>>
>> ** Black
>> 9317
>>
>>
>> Dark Aqua Poly.
>> 12753
>>
>>
>> Dark Blue Poly.
>> 12754
>>
>>
>> Dark Saddle
>> 22306
>>
>>
>> Medium Fawn
>> 22455
>>
>>
>> ** Dark Green Poly.
>> 43295
>>
>>
>> Dark Red
>> 71360
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ** Not used on Corvair
>> *** Not used on 5000 Series, Corvair or Chevy II
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: chevrobilia at juno.com
>> To: whubbell at umich.edu
>> Cc: crawfordrose at msn.com ; scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [SCG] Re: 64 vair
>>
>> Bill,
>> Thanks! Here are the other letter codes:
>> D = Red, all models
>>
>> C = Saddle
>>
>> F is for all Fawn in all models
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:32:06 -0400 "Bill Hubbell"
>> <whubbell at cox.net>
>> writes:
>> Here is a Word file I made once which contains the paint
>> codes for
>> 1964 interiors. I took the information off the paint chip
>> chart I
>> mentioned below. It does not reference the single letter
>> codes
>> used on the body plates, but we are generally able to
>> translate
>> those codes. For instance, we know that:
>>
>> A=medium Aqua Poly. (12533)
>> B=Medium Blue Poly (12531)
>> E=Black (9248)
>> F=Fawn (but I'm not sure which one)
>> Q=Ivory (8259)
>>
>> I am still looking for the rest of the letter codes
>>
>> I have also attached my database (Excel file) of Corvair
>> VINs,
>> body Tags, and options. I am always looking to add to this
>> file.
>> Of course, it would be better to put it in a true database
>> file,
>> but that has to wait until we get the SCG database up and
>> running.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
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