[SCG] SCG evaluation

[Shaun]

I don't agree with having a figure, say percentage of how "stock" a car is.
That reeks of competition. I also think "evaluating" is the wrong word too,
it implies determination of value.
I think lclc hit the nail on the head by saying that our objective is to
"observe and document factory
correct appearance of original cars and details of them".
We need to document what IS stock before any determinations can be made.
That information is stored only in the minds of all too few individuals,
with the proofs existing in all too few original Corvair specimens. One of
our main objectives should be to locate these specimens and document the
details so that the database is more than ethereal.  I totally agree with
Dave Newell when he says, "...just determining what should  be stock, and
advising folks how their cars fit that description, should be biting off
plenty as it is."
Perhaps "Taking Stock" of an original car would be more appropriate a term,
and a  list of non-stock items on a car could be provided to the owner on
request. No points, no scores.
Until the database is filled it will have to suffice that a very few cars
will have their stock taken by very few people, probably mostly in spare
time at CORSA National Conventions. We need to maximise that time and
exposure by having some meticulous note-takers follow the experts on these
sessions, writing down facts as told and even later, to ask questions and
write down the answers. Listening to enthusiastic owners interacting with
the experts should yield tons of material, as they tend to ask the right
questions. We need to start listening and transcribing.
I feel extremely fortunate to be in the company of some of the world's
leading experts on Corvairs, and it's a huge comfort to know that since I'm
restoring a '64, I've got it easy with Rich and Bill on line and willing to
answer questions on '64 minutiae.

yea, Vairily ... Shaun McGarvey

reigning  stock-class autocross National Champion
'64 CDN Spyder cvt.
Western Canada CORSA

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "airvair" <airvair at richnet.net>
To: "Richard W Thompson" <Richard.W.Thompson at usa.dupont.com>
Cc: "Stock Corvair Group" <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>;
<scg-list-bounces at tiger.skiblack.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [SCG] SCG evaluation


> All,
>
> Sorry for the confusion, but as I stated, it was just a thought. As far
> as using the dreaded "J" word, Bill, you should know me well enough to
> know that it was a Freudian slip. From the very beginning, I've been on
> the side of "not judging, but EVALUATING" the cars. So to everyone, just
> substitute "evaluating" in the places I used the wrong word. Write it
> off as being too late at nite or too early in the morning, I forget
> which.
>
> As far as any "competition" aspect, I certainly didn't intend to even
> imply that. The "scoring" would be only a way of putting a concrete
> percentage number to an otherwise guestimated quantity - specifically,
> the degree to which a car is stock and/or original. The purpose would be
> for the owner's edification only, and certainly not a competition of any
> sort.
>
> Thus, any owner who had a car, like my infamous '69 Corsa for example,
> could get a concrete figure on just how close to stock his car really
> is. My car is constructed to be very close to stock, but complying with
> the written "update-backdate" rule allowed in the Concours' Street Stock
> class.
>
> I personally desire to have a "proven" concrete figure on that car as to
> just how close to stock is its construction. It would give me great
> satisfaction if the percentage turned out to be very high. I'd know to
> just what degree I succeeded in my intentions. I think that owners of
> most any car with some degree of "stockness" (be it original or
> restored) would like to have such figures.
>
> But of course, as has been stated, just documenting originality is going
> to be a huge enough task. Once that task is complete (if it ever is)
> enough, maybe such percentage "scoring" could be conducted, for the sake
> of owners' curiousity.
>
> As I said, just a thought. Maybe a bit too off the wall at this point?
>
> -Mark
>
> Richard W Thompson wrote:
> >
> > Just a general message and question to the group:
> >
> > This in reference to Mark's e-mail below.
> >
> > I agree with Mark 100% that the group should not bar any vehicle that an
> > owner wants to put through the process of evaluation. It should be open
to
> > anyone wanting to do this for whatever reason.
> >
> > If we are the "Stock Corvair Group", and the empahasis is on originality
> > and correctness to stock vehicles as provided by Chevrolet/GM, this is
just
> > that, correct? We are not just considering the "correctness and
> > originality" of the components, right? Example: if someone brought in a
> > complete clone of some kind of a known model and option package for that
> > year (say a '66 Corsa turbo), but the body tags, VIN, etc. tell the real
> > story that is was a '66 500 with a 95 hp and Glide originally. Is the
Stock
> > Group's judgement to say because they got it right that it is verified
as
> > stock??. It is my interpretation that is not what is trying to be done
> > here. If the part of the effort here is to match up the vehicles with
what
> > we know were the offerings each year by Chevrolet, either by model,
> > options, dealer optrions, colors, etc. and what the factory would
provide
> > those cars by way of components to put that model/vehicle together,
isn't
> > that exactly it? And what is meant by "passing judgement on political
> > correctness"?
> >
> > Orginality vs. correctness: now there is a great question. Do we look at
> > all stock pavement-up restorations, regardless of all the correct, as
> > prescribed by assembly, date coded componenets, etc., as not original
and
> > score that car low? I am not sure about that.
> >
> > Maybe I am misreading the commenets below, but I would like to hear back
> > from some others on the list to find how they see it.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > All,
> >
> > A thought just crossed my mind, something I figured I'd share with the
> > group before the thought passes.
> >
> > In our evaluation "scoring" we should be judging only two quantities,
> > stockness and originality (perfection and quality, of course, being left
> > to concours). Our "scoring" should assign a percentage point to every
> > item and aspect of the car, right down to the last fastener, and add up
> > to a total in each of the two quantities of 100.00%. I realize that this
> > idea may be too late to make a difference in how we conduct this year's
> > scoring, but I offer this FWIW.
> >
> > A car that is mostly original will score high in both quantities, but a
> > pavement-up resto will score little if any on originality. Certainly
> > things like instrument faces will often be used as delivered, rather
> > than being refinished or restored. And we should not bar any car from an
> > evaluation (even my infamous '69 Corsa.) Our purpose is solely to judge
> > how close a car is to factory stock in its components and those parts'
> > originality, and not to pass judgement on "political correctness."
> >
> > Thus each car will receive two scores, one on originality and one on
> > stockness. Of course, neither will entitle anyone to any "award" but
> > rather only the personal satisfaction of coming as close to 100% as
> > possible. THAT should be our message, and our purpose, in SCG
> > evaluations.
> >
> > -Mark Corbin
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