[SCG] '63 w/red trunk?

Thu Jan 15 23:37:16 EST 2009

Hi Duane, Tommie & all...,
Just thought I'd reinforce Duane's opinions about this car. As the Corvair Preservation "Staff Historian," collector of Corvair photos and literature since 1967 and owner of some original Vairs, I agree that this car has been "freshened:" to the point that some of its originality has been ruined. Most of the damage is on the chassis and underbody, where just about everything except perhaps the bottom of the engine has been repainted. It would be just about impossible to get all that black and silver paint off and make it look original again.
The only areas underneath on a 1963 Corvair that should be black are the tunnel covers, engine shrouds, steering linkage, brake backing plates, the wheel wells (black undercoating), the front and rear crossmembers & the control arms. Whoever went wild with black on the bottom of this car hit the springs, shocks and the entire underbody. The underbody on each side of the tunnel covers should be red oxide primer. There should be red body color overspray on each side, fading as it moves inwards from the rockers. If there's red overspray showing on top of the non-stock black underbody paint, it means that the whole car was repainted red after the black was sprayed.   
The bottom of the trunk normally has some body color paint on it at the front, in varying degrees. But it looks like someone deliberately painted the whole area red on this car.
You can see in the eBay pictures where the original surfaces still show, wherever the painter couldn't easily hit the surface with paint, like at the top of the once-gray shocks. Same for the silver painted axle shafts...he couldn't easily paint the shafts inside the control arms, and you can see where the arm blocked the paint as he was spraying the axles. More silver paint covers the steering linkage (yuck) and it looks like they hit the gas tank and muffler too. 
And that's just the bottom side of the car. It looks like a better job than the typical used car lot in the 60s would have done, but not a professional job as nothing was disassembled before painting. They did mask or wipe off some things, like the control arm bolts.
This is a beautiful car and most of us would be proud to own it, but it wouldn't come close to qualifying for factory stock. And it would take a herculean effort to remove all the paint on the chassis and make it appear stock again. It may not be possible to ever do that.
Attached is a photo of the underside of a new '63 shot by the GM Proving Grounds in Michigan. It's not a prototype, but a car right off the line with nothing touched on it.
Dave Newell

-- "dal" <daluckow at aol.com> wrote:
Tommie,

I have no time for a debate on this car so this will be a brief statement.  You should not declare:  "The underside is absolutely perfect and looks like it just came off the GM assembly line" taken from your Ebay listing.  Original paint?  No way! The underside of that car should be red oxide & black primer with red over spray on the trunk bottom.  The factory would have never had a Corvair undercarriage looking as you described as original.  Larry Claypool will agree.  The car would be factory stock restored! I see the masking around the chrome plating vin number.  Original paint means to me and others in the Corvair circles, it has never been painted since it left the factory.  If you stated original color then that's fine. 
Not necessary to call you because in your mind it will not be changed.  I have seen and owned dozen of original Corvairs that are truly stock.  CORSA has a website dedicated to the preservation of stock Corvairs.  I am a contributing member who has documented photos of what the car below should look like.  Check out www.Corvairkid.com and look at the 66 turbo convertible.  I restored that car.  Hemmings magazine, Muscles Machines for January 2009 does a six page spread on the car as well.  I do have the qualifications in knowing what I am writing to you about.  Pictures enclosed.  Just ask around and check my history and credentials.

Duanne

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On 1/15/2009 at 10:32 AM Wrxin17 at aol.com wrote:
1. carpet is not a repo its original (feel free to come and look at the car) No need to.  
2. Car has never had any paint on it. There is no masking of any kind. Car has all original paint (please feel free to come look at it or give me a call) Don't need to... Your photos tell me the real story!  Be a waste of time on my part.
3. There is red overspray on the underside it is just difficult to see. (the car has been highly detailed and has had the black underneath touched up so it looks more fresh).  Yes the black paint ruined the so called originality you describe in your quote about GM assembly line.
4. Maybe the shocks were replaced I am not an expert on these cars. Obviously!
5. Engine compartment is original (again some things have been freshened up but not overly resorted) Original, freshen up, restored.... Do you understand the meanings of these words?

Please call I would love to here about how you know so much about these cars (you must have several). YES I do.  One being an original turbocharged 66 convertible Pilot car.  This car is a true 3k mileage car with ALL the paperwork. 

Tommie 602-377-3195

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On 1/14/2009 at 8:00 AM dal wrote:

>Bruce,
>
>Hank is absolutely correct.  This Corvair has been altered, restored in
>areas noted below.  It is far from being 100% original.  It is a nice job,
>however falsly stated to Ebay potential buyers.  I have sent Tommy, the
>seller this note regarding the 1963 Corvair.  Also see Tommy (wrxin17) has
>negative feedback from a past buyer about another misrepresented car in
>history  Buyers beware!  .
>
> eBay sent this message to Duanne Luckow (64rampside).
>Your registered name is included to show this message originated from
>eBay. Learn more. 
> 
>
> This member has a question for you
>
>Dear wrxin17,
>
>Tommy, 
>I have carefully read your informative description and very closely viewed
>the photos. You are misrepresenting this Corvair to put it bluntly. It is
>not in the original 100 percent state. The photos speak the truth. 
>1. Carpet is reproduction in front. Can tell from the wrinkles around the
>accelerator pedal. 
>2. Poor masking job around the vin number 
>3. Not the typical factory red overspray under the bottom side of car. 
>4. Spiral shocks should be painted grey. 
>5. Engine compartment is not done correctly, meaning the gobs of sealant
>are missing and overspray should be evident on the deck lid hinges. 
>I am the current National Corvair Society of America Concours Head Judge.
>I have owned and seen original Corvairs in the past and helped placed them
>into classes for judging along with Larry Claypool of Frankfort ILL. 
>I would highly recommend you amend your description on Ebay. It is a
>beautiful car, just overstated for potential buyers. Duanne 
>
>
>- 64rampside  
>
> Chevrolet : Corvair 
>Item Id: 250355341624 
>End time: Jan-20-09 16:17:53 PST 
>Buyer: 
> 64rampside (458) 
>100.0% Positive Feedback 
>Member since Sep-03-02 in United States 
> 
>Listing Status: This message was sent while the listing was active. 
> 
> 
>
>
>
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
>On 1/14/2009 at 10:46 AM kaczmarek at charter.net wrote:
>
>>Bruce
>>At the 94 Nationals, I was observing Larry Claypool doing the concours
>>classification. I had just finished operations checks. 
>>
>>a SWEET Lakewood was in line, looking to get factory stock original
>class. 
>>
>>The vehicle was jacked up on one side with 2 floor jacks and lclc slipped
>>under with a creeper. came out and said "FACTORY STOCK RESTORED"---and the
>>owner went ballistic. 
>>
>>Larry told him---the underside of cars were left body color. yours is
>>black---didn't come from the factory this way.....
>>
>>If that's any help to you. 
>>
>>Hank
>>---- Bruce Schug <bwschug at charter.net> wrote: 
>>> We were talking about this sweet '63 that's on ebay at the meeting  
>>> last night. If you haven't seen it, you ought to take a look. It looks  
>>> like a brand new car.
>>> 
>>> One thing we wonder about is the underside of the trunk bottom. It is  
>>> body color, in this case red. It's the only part of the underside that  
>>> is red. It sure doesn't seem original to us unless a car that wasn't  
>>> undercoated was body color here. This is represented as an original  
>>> unrestored car. Is it or is it over-restored? What do you guys think?
>>> 
>>> http://tinyurl.com/8dgtt9
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bruce
>>> 
>>> Bruce W. Schug
>>> Treasurer & Membership Chairman
>>> CORSA South Carolina
>>> Greenville, SC
>>> Stock Corvair Group
>>> Performance Corvair Group
>>> bwschug at charter.net
>>> 
>>> CORSA member since 1980
>>> 
>>> '67 Monza. "67AC140"
>>> 
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