[SCG] Making stock class, was: [Corsabod] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and StockPreservationAward history in CORSA Concours 1997-2009

[dal]

Keep the Concours first. No exceptions.  We have the banquet now on Friday and there is no Saturday Corsa event.  If anyone has troubles qualifying for FSR the first day, they have until morning the following day whereby we can reclassify just prior to the Concours.  SCG is welcome to ask all the questions and view the cars right after unit 6 operations, (first day) or after the judging has been completed on Tuesday afternoon.  There is usually a two hour window while the cars on on display.  

Duanne

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 9/5/2009 at 10:13 PM Bill Hubbell wrote:

>This encode
>Speaking as a Concours participant who likes to do the moving events as
>well, I prefer the Concours to be the first event so I don't have to worry
>about the car when I race or drive it later in the week. However, from the
>Public Relations viewpoint it would be better to have the car shows at the
>end of the week (Saturday would be best). We probably also lose a few
>Concours participants by having it on a weekday. You can't please
>everybody. 
>
>But the bigger question is whether having classification and the ASCE
>(stock evaluation) a few days before Concours would really make that much
>difference. Only Larry can tell us for sure, but I suspect that most cars
>that don't classify into Factory Stock probably have too many things to
>fix (or would take too much time) for it to matter. I know that at our
>first judged outing (Daytona) Rich Thompson and I were both put into
>Street Stock and we each had a large number of things to fix that took us
>much of the next year to do.
>
>Rich made it into FSR the next year (Chicago) and I just missed.  It is
>probably true that I would have been able to fix my deficiencies in
>Chicago had I been given a day or so.  As it was, I had to wait two years
>for another convention close enough to attend (Carlisle) where I finally
>got it into FSR.
>
>The thing that bugs me most, though, is that we do not really have a
>consistent application of standards for classifying cars into FSR, as my
>experience this year in Jackjsonville demonstrated. In spite of having
>been classified as FSR on two prior occasions (Carlisle and Lexington), I
>was held back this year until I replaced 4 bolts (2 for top shroud belt
>guide and 2 for heat shield) and 2 battery hold-down j-bolts.  I did
>replace them to get into FSR again, but all the hardware I had to replace
>had been on the car when it was previously classified FSR. So     really,
>whether the car is or is not classified FSR one year does not really mean
>anything if there is not a detailed record of what is Stock and what, if
>any, deficiencies are found on the car.
>
>In my opinion there is too much subjectivity in the classifying process
>and not enough documentation.  I believe that we should introduce
>objectivity into the process, making use of digital photography and
>something like the SCG's ASCE evaluation form to document stock and
>non-stock areas. Also, we need a written manual which lists IN DETAIL what
>will and what will NOT be accepted in Factory Stock. As currently written,
>the Concours rules describing Stock are TOO SUBJECTIVE and are not
>consistently applied from one year to the next.  Until such time as we
>have such objective forms and manuals I believe we should give
>participants who seek to show their cars in Factory Stock as much leeway
>as possible. 
>
>Bill Hubbell
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "airvair at earthlink.net" <airvair at earthlink.net>
>
>Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 17:04:42 
>To: Kent Sullivan<kentsu at corvairkid.com>; dal<daluckow at aol.com>;
><corsabod at corvair.org>; <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
>Subject: [SCG] Making stock class,
>    was: [Corsabod] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and StockPreservation
>    Award history in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
>
>
>I think that having the concours the first convention activity out of the
>gate contributes to this problem. There is a rush to get cars classified,
>so that the concours can happen on-schedule. Unfortunately, with the
>current format, this is unavoidable.
>
>Perhaps what we need is to make the convention's "first" day activity a
>"how to get your car into Stock class" day. It would be part seminar, part
>tech session, and part pre-classification session. The emphasis would be
>not on finalizing classification, but rather, on throroughly going over
>each car in an effort to find AND CORRECT any item(s) that would keep it
>out of Stock class. It would also be an opportunity, after all efforts were
>spent on bringing each car up to par, to "pre-qualify" each car, so that
>those cars could skip the "formal" classification process. Just this
>feature alone may encourage participation. Plus it may also serve as the
>SCG Event day, for those who's cars aren't even going to be in the actual
>concours. (The SCG meeting would be held later in the week and during the
>day, so as to pick up any late-arrivals).
>
>Any thoughts anyone?
>
>-Mark
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Kent Sullivan <kentsu at corvairkid.com>
>
>> Subject: Re: [SCG] [Corsabod] Factory Stock Corvair Entries and
>StockPreservation Award history in CORSA Concours 1997-2009
>>
>> What would be interesting to discuss is some way of helping people who
>want
>> to try for factory stock BEFORE classification occurs, or some way they
>> could go back through classification AFTER getting help from the SCG
>folks.
>> In both cases, doing this would make sense only if the things they need
>to
>> change could be changed while at the convention. Sometimes this is
>possible,
>> in the case of Bill Hubbell rounding up some correct bolts. Sometimes
>it's
>> not, because the part is very obscure and the reproduction doesn't look
>the
>> same.
>>
>> Of the two choices, I would like to suggest the latter, since that means
>the
>> main SCG event could continue to be at the same time as classification,
>> which seems to work pretty well, and holding the SCG event before
>> classification poses scheduling problems since classification is pretty
>much
>> the first event of the convention. Since classification these days is
>really
>> about whether you get into Factory Stock or not, I would think we could
>> modify the concours rules to allow people to try twice at a given
>> convention--it should not be that much work given the low number of cars
>> trying.
>>
>> I think small changes like this to the concours rules could really help
>> people who are interested in Factory Stock (Original or Restored) feel
>more
>> positive about their chances of getting in, and these changes reflect the
>> ideas behind the SCG, which are to learn from each other and encourage
>each
>> other as a community, rather than foster an exam-like situation that is
>> tense and stressful. There are too many cars that are very close to
>making
>> it into the Factory Stock classes but the owner has given up.
>>
>> If we wanted to go slightly further, we could make official some sort of
>> policy where people who were very close to Factory Stock could get a
>limited
>> number of exceptions and those exceptions would be documented, with the
>idea
>> being that the next time the car was shown, those things had to be
>> corrected. Meaning, the exceptions would be for that concours only, not
>> future events.
>>
>> --Kent
>>
>
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