[SCG] SCG- concours rules

[Mark Corbin]

All,

Concerning what Kent says, I agree 100%. It always has been arguable as to 
which way is better. But my beef with the present system is that there is a 
degree of it being arbitrary. As I said, where the line is drawn that 
separates gold from silver from bronze, etc. is merely a line that is drawn 
in the sand, and one that could be drawn anywhere. Which is exactly what 
they are doing this year, moving the goal posts "just because" someone said 
so. And in concours, that is so wrong. But while competing for "first, 
second, etc." may depend on who shows, at least it isn't totally dependent 
upon it being someone's arbitrary opinion. And there really isn't any way of 
resolving this point of difference, either.

As far as Bill's comments, again, we're on the same page. And particularly 
concerning his last sentence. While "preserving" may include restoration, 
I'd have to give original cars a higher standing, as there can be no higher 
form of "preservation" than preserving what is already there in just that 
condition.

-Mark

-----Original Message----- 
From: Bill Hubbell
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 8:16 PM
To: Kent Sullivan
Cc: <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
Subject: Re: [SCG] SCG- concours rules

The element of chance is still present in the so-called Preservation Award 
(highest scoring car in Factory Stock classes.  I was always "unlucky" 
enough to have other cars in that class that were better than mine whenever 
I competed.  Ironically, the cars that beat me also won the Mitchell award 
(Best in Show).   Even when my car had the third highest score on the field 
(Chicago), it was bested by another Factory Stock Restored car (Rich 
Thompson's 1964 Spyder).

So yeah, there is still a place where the old way of scoring is still king.

Of course, many years there has only been one car in that class so they won 
the "Preservation Award" by default.  I was never so "lucky" but I was still 
happy to show my car.

The reason I put Preservation Award in quotes is because I think it is the 
wrong name for that award.  In AACA they use that term for cars that have 
been elevated to senior status (and therefore no longer eligible to compete) 
as recognition for continuing participation.  I'd prefer to use the term to 
award the person who made the greatest contribution to preserving (not 
restoring) a Corvair, Corvair history, etc.

Bill

On Jun 24, 2014, at 7:35 PM, "Kent Sullivan" <kentsu at corvairkid.com> wrote:

One thing to consider is that the "old" system depends heavily on who (which 
cars) show up. So although there is a clear first, second, third, etc. 
place, it's among those who were present. As to whether that element of 
chance is good or bad--I think it can be argued both ways.

-----Original Message-----
From: SCG-list [mailto:scg-list-bounces at tiger.skiblack.com] On Behalf Of 
Mark Corbin
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 5:50 PM
To: P.H. Raker; scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com; corsabod at corvair.org; 
whubbell at verizon.net; virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: Re: [SCG] SCG- concours rules

Hi Phil,

I think what you’re seeing is what I expected would be the inevitable result 
of a change in the rules that happened way back at the convention in Lake 
Placid, NY. The organizers decided that they could give the concours an 
Olympic flavor by changing the awards to a “gold, silver, brass, er bronze” 
award system, using set points levels instead of first, second, third, etc. 
This is something that CORSA has adopted ever since, and it’s something with 
which I have always had an issue.

The “gold, silver, bronze” system is essentially an arbitrary line drawn in 
the sand. You’re not competing against anyone, but rather just someone’s 
idea of where to draw the line. IMHO it does several things. The “good” 
thing (that which makes it popular) is that it makes for a lot of “top” 
honors trophies to be handed out. Recent conventions seem to prove that, 
with almost everyone entered getting a trophy. Which is why the points have 
been changed for this year (to answer your question). This leads me into the 
bad things.

The bad things it does are the following: First, it devalues the trophy, as 
you haven’t proven anything, like you’re the best by having beaten somebody 
else out for the top honors. Second, it’s arbitrary, and nothing in concours 
should be arbitrary. It means that you can either get top honors, or lose 
them, depending all on somebody’s line-drawing ability, as the line can be 
set or moved at the whim of whomever is putting on the event, or maybe 
someone at the national level and in some place far away. And they may be 
clueless. Or you could be unlucky. And finally, it eliminates the need for 
classes.

So the question should be;
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