[SCG] SCG- concours rules

[Mark Corbin]

Oh, one last comment. I think the reason why they stuck with the now-present 
system is because so many people were whining about getting a high score and 
"only" getting second (or whatever) place. Well of course, fella, someone 
even better than you showed up. Concours people tend to be without a doubt 
the most sensitive, touchy, egotistical people on the face of the planet.

The problem with the present system, though, has also finally shown up. That 
being that it's now seemed to have devolved into a bit like the Special 
Olympics, where everybody gets an award. Cars have gotten so good that it's 
almost embarrassing all the "top" awards they give out anymore. Which is why 
they're moving the goal posts this year.

-Mark

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Corbin
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:16 PM
To: Bill Hubbell ; Kent Sullivan
Cc: scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com
Subject: Re: [SCG] SCG- concours rules

All,

Concerning what Kent says, I agree 100%. It always has been arguable as to
which way is better. But my beef with the present system is that there is a
degree of it being arbitrary. As I said, where the line is drawn that
separates gold from silver from bronze, etc. is merely a line that is drawn
in the sand, and one that could be drawn anywhere. Which is exactly what
they are doing this year, moving the goal posts "just because" someone said
so. And in concours, that is so wrong. But while competing for "first,
second, etc." may depend on who shows, at least it isn't totally dependent
upon it being someone's arbitrary opinion. And there really isn't any way of
resolving this point of difference, either.

As far as Bill's comments, again, we're on the same page. And particularly
concerning his last sentence. While "preserving" may include restoration,
I'd have to give original cars a higher standing, as there can be no higher
form of "preservation" than preserving what is already there in just that
condition.

-Mark

-----Original Message----- 
From: Bill Hubbell
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 8:16 PM
To: Kent Sullivan
Cc: <scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com>
Subject: Re: [SCG] SCG- concours rules

The element of chance is still present in the so-called Preservation Award
(highest scoring car in Factory Stock classes.  I was always "unlucky"
enough to have other cars in that class that were better than mine whenever
I competed.  Ironically, the cars that beat me also won the Mitchell award
(Best in Show).   Even when my car had the third highest score on the field
(Chicago), it was bested by another Factory Stock Restored car (Rich
Thompson's 1964 Spyder).

So yeah, there is still a place where the old way of scoring is still king.

Of course, many years there has only been one car in that class so they won
the "Preservation Award" by default.  I was never so "lucky" but I was still
happy to show my car.

The reason I put Preservation Award in quotes is because I think it is the
wrong name for that award.  In AACA they use that term for cars that have
been elevated to senior status (and therefore no longer eligible to compete)
as recognition for continuing participation.  I'd prefer to use the term to
award the person who made the greatest contribution to preserving (not
restoring) a Corvair, Corvair history, etc.

Bill

On Jun 24, 2014, at 7:35 PM, "Kent Sullivan" <kentsu at corvairkid.com> wrote:

One thing to consider is that the "old" system depends heavily on who (which
cars) show up. So although there is a clear first, second, third, etc.
place, it's among those who were present. As to whether that element of
chance is good or bad--I think it can be argued both ways.

-----Original Message-----
From: SCG-list [mailto:scg-list-bounces at tiger.skiblack.com] On Behalf Of
Mark Corbin
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 5:50 PM
To: P.H. Raker; scg-list at tiger.skiblack.com; corsabod at corvair.org;
whubbell at verizon.net; virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: Re: [SCG] SCG- concours rules

Hi Phil,

I think what you’re seeing is what I expected would be the inevitable result
of a change in the rules that happened way back at the convention in Lake
Placid, NY. The organizers decided that they could give the concours an
Olympic flavor by changing the awards to a “gold, silver, brass, er bronze”
award system, using set points levels instead of first, second, third, etc.
This is something that CORSA has adopted ever since, and it’s something with
which I have always had an issue.

The “gold, silver, bronze” system is essentially an arbitrary line drawn in
the sand. You’re not competing against anyone, but rather just someone’s
idea of where to draw the line. IMHO it does several things. The “good”
thing (that which makes it popular) is that it makes for a lot of “top”
honors trophies to be handed out. Recent conventions seem to prove that,
with almost everyone entered getting a trophy. Which is why the points have
been changed for this year (to answer your question). This leads me into the
bad things.

The bad things it does are the following: First, it devalues the trophy, as
you haven’t proven anything, like you’re the best by having beaten somebody
else out for the top honors. Second, it’s arbitrary, and nothing in concours
should be arbitrary. It means that you can either get top honors, or lose
them, depending all on somebody’s line-drawing ability, as the line can be
set or moved at the whim of whomever is putting on the event, or maybe
someone at the national level and in some place far away. And they may be
clueless. Or you could be unlucky. And finally, it eliminates the need for
classes.

So the question should be;
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