[SCG] (Second Try) Re: When did belt guards appear on 1964 Corvairs?

[William Hubbell]

But can we all agree that neither of them were originally used on any car prior to Nov 29, 1963?

Bill

On Sep 7, 2017, at 5:24 PM, David Newell <chevrobilia at yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi,
Thanks Larry. I did think the front bracket might interfere with the shroud on the bottom of the condenser, but couldn't find any note which would exclude their use together. 

The 64 Accessory Installation Manual (for dealer-installed A/C) was no help either, since it was published before the guards' introduction. Neither was the '65 manual, which was published before the 65 dealer A/C instructions were ready.

But I think I found the answer in the '65 Assembly Manual. Like the '64 book, it still doesn't tell you not to use the front bracket with A/C, but page C5 in the A/C section shows the front bracket cap screws to simply be used as "plugs" in the top shroud's bracket holes. Since the open holes would be an air leak, I think it's safe to say that the same thing was done on '64s with A/C. But nothing to that effect made it into the 64 Assembly Manual.

The rear bracket, though, shows up in '65 A/C photos. There shouldn't be any reason not to use it on '64 A/C cars, either. 

Dave   
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/7/17,  <larry at vairshop.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: (Second Try) Re: When did belt guards appear on 1964 Corvairs?
To: "William Hubbell" <wjhubbell at gmail.com>
Cc: "David Newell" <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>, "Stock Corvair Group" <scg-list at corvair.org>, "Larry Claypool" <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thursday, September 7, 2017, 4:47 AM

hi guys- just a note, i don't believe the
a/c cars used the upper  
guard, it
interfered with the condenser to upper shroud fitment. not 

sure about the rear guard. a look in the
a/c installation instructions  
for dealer
a/c may clarify.
lc

  Quoting William Hubbell <wjhubbell at gmail.com>:

> Dave - thanks so much for
the information!
> 
> 
Yes, I would be very interested in receiving a scanned copy
of the  
> TSB 982 whenever you get time
to do it.
> 
> Thanks
again!
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Sep 6, 2017, at
11:21 PM, David Newell <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> 
> (Sorry for
the incomplete first attempt...due to my eyesight my left 

> thumb sometimes hits the Control key
instead of Shift and sends  
> emails
before I've finished them!)
> 
> Bill,
> Thanks for
bringing up this interesting subject. I think you're 

> right, Bill, in that the 3-27-64 Assy
Manual note simply revised the  
> 
existing drawing (which already showed the guards) and added
a  
> dimension to it. I don't have
the previous pages in my book, sorry.
> 
> But I found TSB 982
which only went to the field and not to dealers:  
> "Corvair and Corvair 95 Blower Belt
Front and Rear Guides" dated  
> 
3-18-64. It states that "All Corvair Models produced
after November  
> 29, 1963, are
equipped with subject guides to afford greater belt  
> durability and to prevent belt
roll-over."
> 
> 
The primary purpose of the bulletin was to show how the
guides could  
> be field installed on
61 through early 64 Corvairs. Four pages of  
> instructions and drawings were included,
mostly devoted to  
> fabricating a
bracket for the front guide and welding it to the top  
> shroud. If anyone's interested, the
next time I have my laptop hard  
> 
wired to my non-Wifi scanner I can scan the bulletin for
you.
> 
> I checked the
'64 GM Proving Ground Vair production test car photos 

> but the only one photographed after
11-29 was a non-A/C 927, shot on  
> 
3-9-64, which had the guards. The others, including and A/C
car,  
> didn't have them.
> 
> I have one more
source to check, the monthly quality reports, to see  
> if there are any comments about adding the
guards as a fix for a  
> chronic
quality issue. I can't find them right now though.
> 
> Since no exclusions
for A/C were mentioned in either the Assy Manual  
> or the bulletin, I can't see any
reason to believe that '64 A/C cars  
> didn't use the brackets.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Dave
> 
> 
--------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 9/6/17, William Hubbell <wjhubbell at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
> Subject:
Re: When did belt guards appear on 1964 Corvairs?
> To: larry at vairshop.com
> Cc: "Stock Corvair Group" <scg-list at corvair.org>,
"Dave Newell"  
> <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>,
"Larry Claypool" <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Wednesday, September 6, 2017, 4:40
PM
> 
> Thanks Larry -
I don't know why I didn't
> think
of that!
> 
> According
to the 1964 Assembly Manual,
> Section 6,
Sheet A4.00 titled "Belt and Belt Adjustment, on
> 3-27-64:
> Note 6 : 
"View A Revised and Dim
> 
Added".  (View A shows the two guides and the
> dimensions for adjusting them)
> Note 7: "Dim Instructions
Revised"
> (This refers to the
dimensions for
> clearance from guide to
top edge of pulley after belt is
> 
tightened)
> Note 8: "Tensioning
Note Revised"
> 
> 
I checked the 1963 Assembly Manual and
> 
there is a similar page for "Belt and Belt Adjustment
",
> Section 6 Sheet A 9.00.  The
main photo on this sheet
> is nearly
identical to the main photo in the 1964 manual,
> but View A is quite different and, of
course, does not show
> belt guides.
> 
> Therefore it is a
possibility that the
> belt guides may
have been added around 3-27-64, at the time
> View A and belt tensioning note was
revised.  However,
> note 7 seems to
suggest the possibility that there could
> have been an earlier version of view A
showing the belt
> guides with a
different clearance between the fan pulley and
> top shroud belt guide, so this date is not
certain.
> 
> I also
checked the 1964 Assembly Manual
> Air
Conditioning section but find no mention there of belt
> guides.  I rather suspect they were not
added to the
> A/C engine but I'm
really not sure about that.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Sep 6, 2017, at 6:01 PM, larry at vairshop.com
> wrote:
> 
> hi Bill
> as a starting
point check the assembly
> manual and see
what date is listed for the guards. that
> doesn't mean they entered production
then, but it would
> *not* have entered
production *before* then. rear refers to
> one at idler pulley, and yes they are
guides.
> 
> there may
be a technical service
> bulletin that
tells techs how to adjust these, and it may
> note when they came into production.
i'll look when i get a
> chance, but
it's not likely to be soon.
> 
larry
> 
> 
> 
> mQuoting William
Hubbell <wjhubbell at gmail.com>:
> 
>> Do we know the
approximate date
> when the top shroud
and idler pulley belt guards were added
> 
to the Corvair engine?  Also, do we know if Early Air
> Conditioned cars used either of these
guards?
>> 
>> 
The guides definitely first
> appeared
sometime in the 1964 model year, as there are two
> top shroud part numbers listed in the
March 1, 1964
> Corvair-Chevy-Chevelle
parts catalog:
>> 
>> - 3794216 Shroud Assembly, Upper,
> 62-63 Corvair, FC, 64 Corvair (exc.
Turbocharger) (1st
> design)
>> - 3851838 Shroud Shroud Assembly,
> Upper, Corvair, FC (exc. Spyder) (2nd
design)
>> 
>> 
There are likewise two part
> numbers for
64 Spyder top shroud:
>> 
>> - 3848398 Shroud Assembly, Upper,
> 64 Corvair, Spyder (1st design)
>> - 3851840 Shroud Assembly, Upper,
> 64 Spyder (2nd design)
>> 
>> There is
apparently only one
> listing for 64
FC:
>> 
>> -
3848400 Shroud Assembly, Upper,
> 64
FC
>> 
>> 
Additionally, the index listing
> for
"Guide, Blower belt idler pulley" points to
section
> 1.060.  In that section I find
the following:
>> 
>> - 3851844 Guide, front, 64
> Corvair, FC (exc. Air Cond.)
>> - 3851845 Guide, rear, 64 Corvair,
> FC
>> 
>> I'm not sure if "guide"
is the
> belt guard.  If so, is the
"front" the guide that goes
> 
on the upper shroud and "rear" the guide that goes
on the
> idler pulley?
>> 
>> The parts
book does not list the
> dates for
"1st design" and "2nd design" - do we
have any
> idea when this change took
place?   I already looked in
> my
Clark's reproduction Chevrolet Service Bulletins and
did
> not find anything, but as these are
edited reproductions I
> might be missing
the announcement.
>> 
>> Bill Hubbell
> 
> 
> 
> 
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