[SCG] (Second Try) Re: When did belt guards appear on 1964 Corvairs?

Thu Sep 7 22:34:45 EDT 2017

Well, yeah, I think we'd done that unless the TSB date is disproven. I thought we'd moved on to tackle the use of one or both both brackets with A/C. It looks like we should be able to agree that only the rear bracket on the idler pulley was used with '64 and '65 A/C.
Dave

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/7/17, William Hubbell <wjhubbell at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: (Second Try) Re: When did belt guards appear on 1964 Corvairs?
 To: "David Newell" <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
 Cc: larry at vairshop.com, "Stock Corvair Group" <scg-list at corvair.org>, "Larry Claypool" <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
 Date: Thursday, September 7, 2017, 5:49 PM

 But can we all agree that neither
 of them were originally used on any car prior to Nov 29,
 1963?

 Bill

 On Sep 7, 2017, at 5:24 PM, David Newell <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
 wrote:

 Hi,
 Thanks Larry. I did think the front bracket
 might interfere with the shroud on the bottom of the
 condenser, but couldn't find any note which would
 exclude their use together. 

 The 64 Accessory Installation Manual (for
 dealer-installed A/C) was no help either, since it was
 published before the guards' introduction. Neither was
 the '65 manual, which was published before the 65 dealer
 A/C instructions were ready.

 But I think I found the answer in the '65
 Assembly Manual. Like the '64 book, it still doesn't
 tell you not to use the front bracket with A/C, but page C5
 in the A/C section shows the front bracket cap screws to
 simply be used as "plugs" in the top shroud's
 bracket holes. Since the open holes would be an air leak, I
 think it's safe to say that the same thing was done on
 '64s with A/C. But nothing to that effect made it into
 the 64 Assembly Manual.

 The
 rear bracket, though, shows up in '65 A/C photos. There
 shouldn't be any reason not to use it on '64 A/C
 cars, either. 

 Dave   
 --------------------------------------------
 On Thu, 9/7/17,  <larry at vairshop.com>
 wrote:

 Subject: Re: (Second
 Try) Re: When did belt guards appear on 1964 Corvairs?
 To: "William Hubbell" <wjhubbell at gmail.com>
 Cc: "David Newell" <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>,
 "Stock Corvair Group" <scg-list at corvair.org>,
 "Larry Claypool" <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
 Date: Thursday, September 7, 2017, 4:47 AM

 hi guys- just a note, i
 don't believe the
 a/c cars used the
 upper  
 guard, it
 interfered with the condenser to upper shroud
 fitment. not 

 sure about
 the rear guard. a look in the
 a/c
 installation instructions  
 for dealer
 a/c may clarify.
 lc

   Quoting William Hubbell
 <wjhubbell at gmail.com>:

 > Dave - thanks so much
 for
 the information!
 >

 > 
 Yes, I would be very
 interested in receiving a scanned copy
 of
 the  
 > TSB 982 whenever you get time
 to do it.
 > 
 > Thanks
 again!
 > 
 > Bill
 > 
 > On Sep 6, 2017,
 at
 11:21 PM, David Newell <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
 wrote:
 > 
 > (Sorry for
 the incomplete
 first attempt...due to my eyesight my left 

 > thumb sometimes hits the
 Control key
 instead of Shift and sends  
 > emails
 before I've
 finished them!)
 > 
 >
 Bill,
 > Thanks for
 bringing up this interesting subject. I think
 you're 

 > right,
 Bill, in that the 3-27-64 Assy
 Manual note
 simply revised the  
 > 
 existing drawing (which already showed the
 guards) and added
 a  
 >
 dimension to it. I don't have
 the
 previous pages in my book, sorry.
 > 
 > But I found TSB 982
 which
 only went to the field and not to dealers:  
 > "Corvair and Corvair 95 Blower
 Belt
 Front and Rear Guides" dated  
 > 
 3-18-64. It states that
 "All Corvair Models produced
 after
 November  
 > 29, 1963, are
 equipped with subject guides to afford greater
 belt  
 > durability and to prevent
 belt
 roll-over."
 >

 > 
 The primary purpose
 of the bulletin was to show how the
 guides
 could  
 > be field installed on
 61 through early 64 Corvairs. Four pages of 

 > instructions and drawings were
 included,
 mostly devoted to  
 > fabricating a
 bracket for
 the front guide and welding it to the top  
 > shroud. If anyone's interested, the
 next time I have my laptop hard  
 > 
 wired to my non-Wifi
 scanner I can scan the bulletin for
 you.
 > 
 > I checked the
 '64 GM Proving Ground Vair production test
 car photos 

 > but the
 only one photographed after
 11-29 was a
 non-A/C 927, shot on  
 > 
 3-9-64, which had the guards. The others,
 including and A/C
 car,  
 > didn't have them.
 >

 > I have one more
 source
 to check, the monthly quality reports, to see  
 > if there are any comments about adding
 the
 guards as a fix for a  
 > chronic
 quality issue. I
 can't find them right now though.
 >

 > Since no exclusions
 for A/C were mentioned in either the Assy
 Manual  
 > or the bulletin, I can't
 see any
 reason to believe that '64 A/C
 cars  
 > didn't use the brackets.
 > 
 > Hope this helps,
 > Dave
 > 
 > 
 --------------------------------------------
 > On Wed, 9/6/17, William Hubbell <wjhubbell at gmail.com>
 wrote:
 > 
 > Subject:
 Re: When did belt
 guards appear on 1964 Corvairs?
 > To: larry at vairshop.com
 > Cc: "Stock Corvair Group" <scg-list at corvair.org>,
 "Dave Newell"  
 >
 <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>,
 "Larry Claypool" <vairshop at sbcglobal.net>
 > Date: Wednesday, September 6, 2017,
 4:40
 PM
 > 
 > Thanks Larry -
 I don't
 know why I didn't
 > think
 of that!
 > 
 > According
 to the 1964
 Assembly Manual,
 > Section 6,
 Sheet A4.00 titled "Belt and Belt
 Adjustment, on
 > 3-27-64:
 > Note 6 : 
 "View A
 Revised and Dim
 > 
 Added".  (View A shows the two guides and
 the
 > dimensions for adjusting them)
 > Note 7: "Dim Instructions
 Revised"
 > (This refers
 to the
 dimensions for
 >
 clearance from guide to
 top edge of pulley
 after belt is
 > 
 tightened)
 > Note 8:
 "Tensioning
 Note Revised"
 > 
 > 
 I
 checked the 1963 Assembly Manual and
 >

 there is a similar page for "Belt and
 Belt Adjustment
 ",
 >
 Section 6 Sheet A 9.00.  The
 main photo on
 this sheet
 > is nearly
 identical to the main photo in the 1964
 manual,
 > but View A is quite different
 and, of
 course, does not show
 > belt guides.
 > 
 > Therefore it is a
 possibility that the
 > belt
 guides may
 have been added around 3-27-64,
 at the time
 > View A and belt tensioning
 note was
 revised.  However,
 > note 7 seems to
 suggest
 the possibility that there could
 > have
 been an earlier version of view A
 showing
 the belt
 > guides with a
 different clearance between the fan pulley
 and
 > top shroud belt guide, so this date
 is not
 certain.
 > 
 > I also
 checked the 1964
 Assembly Manual
 > Air
 Conditioning section but find no mention there
 of belt
 > guides.  I rather suspect they
 were not
 added to the
 >
 A/C engine but I'm
 really not sure about
 that.
 > 
 > Bill
 > 
 > On Sep 6, 2017, at
 6:01 PM, larry at vairshop.com
 > wrote:
 > 
 > hi Bill
 > as a
 starting
 point check the assembly
 > manual and see
 what date
 is listed for the guards. that
 >
 doesn't mean they entered production
 then, but it would
 > *not*
 have entered
 production *before* then. rear
 refers to
 > one at idler pulley, and yes
 they are
 guides.
 > 
 > there may
 be a technical
 service
 > bulletin that
 tells techs how to adjust these, and it may
 > note when they came into production.
 i'll look when i get a
 >
 chance, but
 it's not likely to be
 soon.
 > 
 larry
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > mQuoting William
 Hubbell <wjhubbell at gmail.com>:
 > 
 >> Do we know
 the
 approximate date
 >
 when the top shroud
 and idler pulley belt
 guards were added
 > 
 to
 the Corvair engine?  Also, do we know if Early Air
 > Conditioned cars used either of these
 guards?
 >> 
 >> 
 The guides definitely
 first
 > appeared
 sometime
 in the 1964 model year, as there are two
 > top shroud part numbers listed in the
 March 1, 1964
 >
 Corvair-Chevy-Chevelle
 parts catalog:
 >> 
 >> - 3794216
 Shroud Assembly, Upper,
 > 62-63 Corvair,
 FC, 64 Corvair (exc.
 Turbocharger) (1st
 > design)
 >> - 3851838
 Shroud Shroud Assembly,
 > Upper, Corvair,
 FC (exc. Spyder) (2nd
 design)
 >> 
 >> 
 There are likewise two part
 > numbers for
 64 Spyder top
 shroud:
 >> 
 >> -
 3848398 Shroud Assembly, Upper,
 > 64
 Corvair, Spyder (1st design)
 >> -
 3851840 Shroud Assembly, Upper,
 > 64
 Spyder (2nd design)
 >> 
 >> There is
 apparently
 only one
 > listing for 64
 FC:
 >> 
 >> -
 3848400 Shroud
 Assembly, Upper,
 > 64
 FC
 >> 
 >> 
 Additionally, the
 index listing
 > for
 "Guide, Blower belt idler pulley"
 points to
 section
 >
 1.060.  In that section I find
 the
 following:
 >> 
 >> - 3851844 Guide, front, 64
 > Corvair, FC (exc. Air Cond.)
 >> - 3851845 Guide, rear, 64 Corvair,
 > FC
 >> 
 >> I'm not sure if
 "guide"
 is the
 > belt guard.  If so, is the
 "front" the guide that goes
 > 
 on the upper shroud and
 "rear" the guide that goes
 on
 the
 > idler pulley?
 >> 
 >> The parts
 book does not list the
 >
 dates for
 "1st design" and
 "2nd design" - do we
 have any
 > idea when this change took
 place?   I already looked in
 > my
 Clark's
 reproduction Chevrolet Service Bulletins and
 did
 > not find anything, but
 as these are
 edited reproductions I
 > might be missing
 the
 announcement.
 >> 
 >> Bill Hubbell
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
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 > 
 > 

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