<VV> Re: Judson
Eric S. Eberhard
flash@vicspdi.com
Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:32:20 -0700
I am using the correct Holley 2110 2bl 3-bolt mount carb. I have heard
that the Judson is terrible on the larger (164 ci) engines. It was
designed for the 145 ci (62-63). It is not enough boost for the larger
engine. At least that is what I hear. BTW --> they do sound LOUD -->
blower whine and some vane rattling noise (that goes away when it warms up,
the install instructions say after 1/2 hour but I find it quiets down in 15
minutes or so).
At 04:41 PM 3/4/04, you wrote:
>Hi Eric. I am over in Utah between Salt Lake and Ogden. I had a great time
>reading your info and the supercharger. I sold the one to Jeff Angelli. I
>went through all of the trouble of hooking it up to a 66 monza, took it for
>a drive and it sounded terrible with vibrations. Turned out to be the
>flywheel was bad. I took it off when I sold the car to my nephew. I have
>another one in the garage. I think it was missing the idler pulley so I had
>something devised but I haven't ever installed it on a car. It is one of
>those someday projects just sitting around alsong with the two barrel
>adapter for a turbo. One of these days...
>
>Good to here of your progress. what carburetor did you use?
>
>Doug Barneck
>
>
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:51:44 -0700
>To: virtualvairs@corvair.org
>From: "Eric S. Eberhard" <flash@vicspdi.com>
>Subject: <VV> Judson Supercharger Install Complete!!!
>
>It works very well on my 62 Monza Sedan with PG. I will have pictures on
>my website fairly soon, I am putting on a lucite engine cover before taking
>the pictures, and this too may turn out to be a project.
>
>It took several months (weekends only) and who knows how many hours to get
>it right. I bought the kit from Chuck (on this list) and it was more or
>less complete. However, he did not use the choke nor the "stock" air
>filter arrangement so I had to scavenge those parts. Jeff Angelli (also
>from this list) amazingly had the little air cleaner adapter I needed. I
>had a shop drill and tap my exhaust manifold and make the choke attachment
>(hot air). The pulley was incorrect, it was an A/C pulley. George Folchi
>(a Judson guru) made (from scratch!) a pulley for me. The oiler was not
>the "correct" Marvel Myster Oiler so I got me one of those. I got it all
>hooked up.
>
>Ran terrible --> stalled at low rpm and idle. I fooled with fuel pressure
>regulators and solved that problem, at the expense of having any gas at
>full throttle! The carb was rebuilt ... but i checked it anyway and it
>looked fine. So I found some cool adjustable main jets for the Holley 2
>barrel carb (they adjust from the outside!!!) and played with
>jetting. When all was said and done I removed the pressure regulator and
>it would still flood at idle and also at full throttle! Half throttle car
>that had to always be moving -- drag.
>Chuck mentioned he had the same problem, flooding at high rpm. I almost
>gave up when I noticed that the float cutoff (which was new in appearance)
>had TWO gaskets under it -> an old crappy one with the nice new one on top
>(I had looked at this 10 times before and not noticed the double
>gaskets). This cause the opening at the top to be huge --> too much for
>idle, and when the blower kicked in it would drag tons of fuel. I took the
>old crappy gasket out, car runs great. I was skeptical so I actually put
>it back in, and it failed! Problem solved.
>
>I spent most of a day playing with mixture (idle and main) and timing. It
>runs almost perfectly (more later).
>
>My installation is "stock" in that it looks exactly like the old pictures
>from 1962 including the goofy air filter arrangement and the hose going
>across. It builds boost evenly and really not noticeably. Except that
>with light throttle input and no drama I suddenly find myself going very
>fast (too fast :-). It is more "torque" feel than "snappy acceleration"
>feel like my Spyder. We live in the mountains here and on some of the
>steep climbs the stock car could barely do 65 with my foot on the
>floor. Now it does 80 at half throttle. It also sounds really cool
>(clicks and whines and whrrrs) if you don't mind loud! When you jump on it
>you can hear it suck the air through the filters.
>
>I have one vice and one curiosity I would like help on from those that had
>the patience to get this far!
>
>The vice: the transition, up or down, from idle to throttle is "abrupt" to
>say the least. From a stop if I completely floor the car it dies. Less
>throttle and it stumbles a second and then goes. I also feel this when
>coasting to a stop ... it just abruptly transitions to idle (it does not
>die you just feel it). When trundling along at 35 or so on a flat road it
>will transition down then with a tiny touch of the pedal transition back
>up. I am pretty sure this is when the mains kick in or out versus the
>idle. It is tamed to some degree by fiddling with the mixture screws for
>either the mains or the idle ... maybe I am not just dialing in the correct
>"matched set" -> or maybe the carb as a problem -> or maybe that is the way
>it is (having no other Judson with PG car to compare I cannot say)? I
>should point out that this is not all that serious a problem in that as
>long as I don't floor it from a dead stop it is quite driveable (and I can
>floor it on the freeway to pass and all is well) Any opinions or advice?
>
>The curiosity: when stock (102 hp) the book says to time the car at 13
>degrees. I always set it at 18 degrees as it ran better. I am at 3500
>foot altitude. With the Judson it runs best at 25 degrees!!! And it never
>pings (I am using 44ff plugs rather than the 46ff it had). There is no
>problem ... it just bugs me because that seems like a lot of advance. In
>fact, at low rpm it even like 30 degrees better!!! Knocks like crazy
>though under load. In fact, the 30 degree timing helps that transition
>vice above quite a bit. I was considering getting a Dale pressure/retard
>(made for the turbo) and setting the initial timing at 30 degrees with the
>hope that it would retard enough to stop the pinging at higher rpm. But it
>was not designed for my distributor or engine (could I try a Spyder
>distributor as well?) --> any opinions or advice on this area?
>
>Anyway, I'll keep you posted. I have been using it as a daily driver again
>(even went grocery shopping today, which thrilled my wife :-). I'll also
>post when the pictures are on line. Anyone else contemplating doing this
>job feel free to contact me for more detail or help ... anyone with Judson
>parts for sale also feel free to contact me --> especially a carb or blower!
>
>
>Eric S. Eberhard
>(928) 567-3727 Voice
>(928) 567-6122 Fax
>(800) 569-1122 Denver Office (I am never there, you can leave a
>message)
>(720) 339-4765 Cell
>
>http://www.vicspdi.com
>
>Completely updated web site of personal pictures with many new
>pictures! Includes horses, dogs, Corvairs, and more.
>
>http://www.vicspdi.com/ourpics/index.html
Eric S. Eberhard
(928) 567-3727 Voice
(928) 567-6122 Fax
(800) 569-1122 Denver Office (I am never there, you can leave a
message)
(720) 339-4765 Cell
http://www.vicspdi.com
Completely updated web site of personal pictures with many new
pictures! Includes horses, dogs, Corvairs, and more.
http://www.vicspdi.com/ourpics/index.html