<VV> Strange power loss problem

[Tony Underwood]

At 01:39 hours 01/17/2006, Bill Elliott wrote:
>There are widely varying experiences with Bosch Platinums.   While I 
>am a HUGE Bosch fan (and run only Bosch or NGK plugs in everything I 
>own) I happen to think these are not very good plugs.  They _seem_ 
>to require more voltage to fire for a given gap.

Oddly enough, I've not found this to be true in the cars around here.


>A few folks (like you) seem to have no problems at all with them. 
>Most of these folks are running a hot coil and electronic ignition.


Bosch Plats are in the '69 140 Monza, the '62 ('65 110 hp engine) 
ragtop, the '67 500 coupe, and the '66 Corsa ragtop.


>Some folks (including a couple of of my Corvair engines) can't even 
>get the engine to idle on a set.


Never seen this sort of thing, ever.    Can't understand why plugs 
wouldn't allow an engine to even *idle* if the rest of the engine is 
in any sort of condition that resembles roadworthiness.


>I can give you the long and torturous story about my experiences 
>with them in my Audi Quattro Turbo Coupe (which had a hot ignition 
>but which was VERY picky about plugs... I tried virtually every plug 
>in the Bosch lineup and the base Platinum was by far the worst... 
>yet my normally aspirated 4000 Quattro ran great on them.) At the 
>other end, the BEST were the Bosch Platins... a _real_ platinum plug 
>with a large center electrode... and a $25/per price tag. This 
>suggests to me that the tiny center electrode in the Bosch Platinums 
>(and not the fact they are platinum) is the real issue.


I have a  bunch of these plugs that I got on an "inside deal" at a 
FLAPS which was changing brands and dropping Bosch and sold off a few 
dozen of them for a buck each... no matter what they were, if they 
were Bosch they were a buck each.    No Platins...  ;)


>I can also give you many, many stories from when these were THE plug 
>and I was working part time with a Corvair-only resto shop... at 
>least once a week someone would come in with a poor running Corvair. 
>#1 cause was by far the platinum plugs... cause #2 were ill-adjusted 
>carbs....

Confusing...

Makes me ask myself why the 'Vairs here all run so well on those tiny 
electrode Platinums...   except the '60 4-door, which hasn't had a 
new set of plugs in it for the last couple of decades, old Champions 
still in it and they've never worn out or fouled or whatever.    They 
got carbon-packed when on of the carbs had a fuel inlet valve issue 
and I drove the car home blubbering and stumbling and leaving a trail 
of black smoke...   the CAR, not me.

A quick sandblast of the plugs and back into the engine they went... 
that was about 5 or 6 years ago.    I suppose unleaded is good for 
something after all.



>In _most_ Corvairs, changing from Bosch Platinums to Bosch Supers 
>(at 1/3 the price) yields an improvement in driveability and power.


The ones here seem to run OK, never been a reason to change to 
anything else.   The 500 got a tuneup last fall, included fresh 
plugs, kept the old ones which had some soot on them but a shot of 
carb cleaner and a brush and blow-out with compressed air and they 
looked fine...


>In some Corvairs, there was no change. In no Corvair (that I am 
>aware of) did changing from Platinums to Supers cause any _loss_ in 
>performance.

Frankly, in the stuff here I've seen no difference between the 
two.   I use the Platinums because I got a batch of them cheap, so 
that's pretty much that.


>So in summary, if (1) many folks have issues with Platinums and (2) 
>nothing is gained by running Platinums and (3) Supers are a fraction 
>of the cost, why would anyone _want_ to run Platinums in a Corvair?

...a buck apiece...?


>I would suggest that you try the same challenge that I've made to 
>many, many other Corvair owners. Invest $6 in a set of Supers.  You 
>_might_ find that your car doesn't run as well as you think it 
>does... or at the worst you might find it runs just as well on cheap plugs...


In my case, they probably would.   But I already bought a bunch of 
the Platinums and so far they've done fine, no issues so I've not 
bothered to buy another sparkplug since.   Hell, the ones I used the 
first time when I bought them are still in the cars and running right 
along...  except for the ones in the 500 although the ones I took out 
would probably still work as well.

Long story short:   I've had good luck with Platinums.



tony..