<VV> Thems wuz the daze

[Tony Underwood]

At 02:41 hours 03/25/2006, Padgett wrote:

>>The guys I knew would be laughed off the street if they had
>>AC in their car.   :)
>>We wuz hardcore back in them thar days.
>
>And back in the day, all my V-8 autocross cars had a/c including the 
>'70 GS that used to beat Z-28s regularly. Keep in mind that the Z-28 
>was developed to meet a five liter limit imposed by the SCCA for 
>TransAm racing and used a 327 block with a 283 crank.


That combo was first experimented with by factory techs in '66 with a 
couple of the prototype Camaros that were being played with which led 
to the "66 1/2" Camaros.   Those were the Camaros that could be most 
easily identified by the single bowl master cylinder.   Not many sold 
(according to one source only a couple to three hundred).   I know 
someone who owned one, 6 cylinder Powerglide.   She sold it to 
somebody who knew what it was and he wouldn't sell it back.   I think 
he has since flipped the car to some collector someplace.


>  Sure the 350 would out torque a Z-28 and the Dodge 340 was even 
> better just as a good 440 six pack would usually outrun a hemi.


...depending on application and how the Hemi was set up... ;)


>Also remember that in the 60s and 70s, street tires were *terrible*


Nobody needs to remind me...   I had all the tire I could stuff under 
the wheel wells on that Plymouth and it would still light them up, 
and freewheel them through 2nd gear if I got stupid.


>(used to have a 70 Grand Prix with a Muncie, friends called it 
>"asphyxiation" from all of the tire smoke. Wasn't going anywhere, 
>just smoking the tires - "up in smoke" had a very real meaning then.

A bud of mine had a battleship Olds w/455 that would cloud the 
neighborhood if you nailed it.   The car would hardly accelerate at 
all... just roar and squall the tires and make smoke.


>So you cannot compare cars of then unless you know the rules. A good 
>Z-28 would put out about 440 hp at 7000 rpm,


Humm...  I'd like to see some dyno slips on one of those 
302s.   Those engines just weren't built all that strong, and they 
were working through a relatively stock exhaust system with iron 
manifolds.   I could believe something around 300-320 hp but nothing 
close to 400 honest hp.   That's asking a LOT from a limited 
displacement smallblock off the dealership floor.


>just an L-88 was pushing 600 at the time (430 hp rated).


I've heard a lot of stories about how the L88 427 was making 
astronomical horsepower numbers... although one voice in a magazine 
said the engine would actually dyno out at almost 500 honest horsepower.

Now, that is a BIG number.   500 honest hp is freakishly 
strong.    But that 600 hp figure doesn't compute.   There were lots 
of dedicated seriously modified 427 race engines that had trouble 
making 600 hp.

Likewise the 426 Hemi engine which was always being touted as making 
huge hp numbers.   In real life, the stock "street hemi" engine with 
hydraulic lifters was dynoed out at 463 hp.   I have a dyno slip from 
Chrysler Corporation development labs where they tested a street-hemi 
to the limits.   The 426 crate street-hemi engine available today 
(once again) is rated at 465 hp.   Other "more sophisticated" tweaked 
variants are available in upward echelon hp figures, past 600.


Now:   The '64 and '65 and '68-only "race-hemi" engines with the mag 
crossram and paired 650 Holleys was another matter.  Solid lifters, 
12.5 pistons, rough idle, redline ~7200 rpm vs the 5200 for the 
street-hemi.    *That* was an engine to contend with.    Nobody at 
Chrysler would be pinned down as to any dyno slips for the 
race-hemi.   They let the engine speak for itself.

It currently holds the SS/AA dragrace record, in a '68 Barracuda (the 
only car besides the Dodge Dart in '68 that the race-hemi was 
available with).   Something in the area of 9's at almost 150 mph in 
the quarter-mile.    That's brisk for a doorslammer class running an 
engine that has to meet factory advertised specs.


>Once you found a way to get the power to the ground, was no question 
>which would come in ahead (and a lot of clutches got fried trying to 
>do just that). Is difficult to really appreciate now but back then 
>anything less than 400 (and really 427) cubic inches was considered a toy.


...would that make my 426 (less than 427) a toy...?    ;)


...for all intents and purposes, I suppose it was.

By the way:  Dunlap was making a "GT" series tire that hooked pretty 
well, back in the early-mid'70s...  soft, and the road wear was 
nothing to brag about but it held onto the pavement well.   One 
burnout to heat them up and they hooked.   Sticky when hot.    Lucky 
to get 10,000 miles out of them if you did NOT run them 
hard.   That's about what I got with the ones on the front.   The the 
wide ones on the back didn't last 4000 miles and I wasn't that rough 
on them...  I thought.

Then again, with the right engine, no street tire is going to be enough.


tony..