<VV> Hybrid Saturn SUV - GM Is Listening - NOW A LITTLE Corvair - Some Humor

Dave Keillor dkeillor at tconcepts.com
Wed Jan 9 13:37:01 EST 2008


Bill is exactly right.  To be truly "green", one needs to assess the total environment cost where the key elements are: manufacturing, ownership, and disposal.  The full hybrids (e.g., Prius) have a heavy cost on both the front-end (manufacturing) and back-end (disposal), neither of which get much attention from the "greens".  If anyone thinks you will be able to simply drop off your old Prius at the junkyard when it reaches end-of-life, they're badly mistaken.  Besides the toxic batteries, you have mucho electronics that will have to be removed and disposed of separately.

In the county where I live (Olmsted County, Minnesota), electronics can no longer be disposed of as ordinary garbage, but must be taken to the recycling center where they charge $0.35 per pound.  Minnesota recently passed a bill which requires manufacturers to ratchet up recycling of their electronic products and to pay for those efforts based on the weight of all the TVs and computers they sell in the state.  This merely shifts the cost to the manufacturers, but it does make it less attractive for individuals to dump their old TVs and computers illegally.

On the other hand, for a Corvair (or other used car), the front end is zero (sunk costs) and the backend is smaller than even contemporary non-hybrids because of the high ratio of very-recyclable steel to not-so-recyclable plastics in a Corvair.  And the comparison to hybrids is off the chart.

As to Tony's assertion that the Japanese government is heavily subsidizing the hybrid technology, I have no reason to doubt that he's correct.  In fact, I have indirect evidence to support his assertion.  Back in the late '70s and early to mid '80s, MITI established a goal of Japan becoming the dominant manufacturer of computers.  They backed up that goal by providing under the table support, both financial and technological.  For their part, the Japanese Computer Manufacturers added theft and copyright infringement to their bag of tricks.  There was the infamous FBI sting that caught high-level Hitachi executives trying to steal advanced IBM mother board designs, and both Hitachi and Fujitsu were caught infringing on IBM operating system copyrights.

IBM vigorously fought back both on a legal front and by establishing a competitive analysis group in Japan (I was part of that group).  The result was that the Japanese failed in their quest to dominate the computer industry and instead turned their attention to other industries.

Prius anyone?  I think it would be interesting if the manufacturers were required to post a total lifecycle environmental impact index -- and perhaps taxed based on the index.  In the long run, it would do a whole lot more for the environment than 35mpg CAFÉ mandates.

Dave Keillor
 
-----Original Message-----
From: virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org [mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org] On Behalf Of Bill Elliott
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:12 AM
To: ChiefTAM at aol.com
Cc: tony.underwood at cox.net; virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: Re: <VV> Hybrid Saturn SUV - GM Is Listening - NOW A LITTLE Corvair - Some Humor

Actually with something like 70% (the specific % is arguable) of a 
vehicle's total energy/environmental impact being consumed during its 
construction and delivery to the selling dealer, driving an old "dirty" 
Corvair (or any other old car for that matter) is more "responsible" 
than driving even the cleanest of the new cars...

Haven't bought a new car is over 20 years and don't intend to start now...

Bill


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