<VV> New tech. The Volt, for one.

[Alan and Clare Wesson]

I will get flamed for responding to this because it's 'no Corvair', so any 
further responses will be offlist.

However, I need to say the following:

> First. a HUGE portion of our electricity production comes from Coal.
> I believe it's 40 percent.

It's 48.9% - have a look at the wiki graph I posted before. And that's 
TERRIBLE! Coal has the highest unit CO2 output of any fossil fuel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sources_of_electricity_in_the_USA_2006.png

And don't talk to me (as several have) about CCS (Carbon Capture and 
Storage) - that has to be in place BEFORE you ramp up your electricity 
demand, otherwise the net output of CO2 will rise, and that's not what it's 
supposed to be all about. Have a look at this, which is currently exercising 
our lentil-eating hippies and Al Gore fans (because don't forget that I 
think this is all a load of BS!):

http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/files/pdfs/climate/kingsnorth_objection.pdf

Paragraph 39 is the important one.

> As EVs charge off the grid normally at night, NO additional power plants 
> or
> infrastructure needs to be built for a long time.

That's not the point - you need to be CLOSING coal-fired power plants, not 
opening new ones.

> A power company guy last  week did the math. If we got rid of EVERY SINGLE
> gas burning car, and went  exclusively to EV, the power companies estimate 
> that
> they'd need an additional 6  percent power generation and transmission
> capability. SIX percent. And, that's  over 10-15 years to get ready for 
> it.

That underlines exactly the point I was making before - only 12% of CO2 
comes from cars, so you are effectively saying that if you cut out the 12% 
CO2 from gasoline and switched to elec, you'd cut 50% of the CO2 - in other 
words, a Chevy Volt is 50% more efficient than a traditional American car.

This is almost certainly true, but it's only because the average American 
car does about 15 mpg. If you switched to small diesels you'd cut your CO2 
output a lot more, because small diesels are more efficient than Chevy 
Volts - the power losses involved in generating elec from fossil fuels, then 
sending it down cables to the end user, who then has to store it in a huge 
(and polluting, and relatively short-lived) battery cancel out any advantage 
that you might have gained.

You'd be much better off in CO2 terms switching to small diesels.

But either way, the saving (we are agreed it's max 6%) is so infinitesimal 
that it will make absolutely no difference whatever to the climate! You'd be 
much better trying to work out a way of generating domestic power cleanly.

O.K. - that's my last (public) word on the matter. But trust me - electric 
cars aren't a panacea. They aren't even an improvement over what we've got 
now. Only good thing I can think about them is that they develop maximum 
torque from zero revs, so they are FUN TO DRIVE! And that's what it's all 
about...

Cheers

Alan






>
> I'm a little suprised to see the argument that power companies  pollute as
> much as cars, and EVs pollute by switching the source to the  plant. 
> Setting
> the pollution of solar, wind, geothermal, tidal and nuke  aside for a 
> minute, do
> you really think that coal and natural gas plants pollute  as much as a 
> car
> for the same amount of energy used?  Do you think it's  harder or easier 
> to
> clean up exhaust from a moving single vehicle, or a large  scale, fixed 
> location?
>
> A gas engine car driver forgets that a battery EV  is about 90% efficient. 
> A
> gas engine car is about 15% efficient, and I'm  being generous. When I 
> drive
> the Fiero or the CorVolt, I have the energy  equivalent of one half gallon 
> of
> gas on board, in twenty old school 6  volt lead acid batteries, weighing 
> 57
> lbs each!!!  That gives me 75mph  capability, and 70 mile range in warm 
> weather.
> yes, it's a  VERY heavy way  to carry energy. But, still, very efficient.
> That's part of why they  pollute so much less. The last argument I saw
> attributed between 10% and 20% the  pollution of a gas engine car, only if 
> the plant
> was burning the dirtiest fuel  possible- coal. (Makes you pause when you 
> see
> those "Clean coal" ads,  huh?)
>
> Check this stuff out. It's fascinating.  Like, if you convert water to
> hydrogen, then put it in a fuel cell, and power your car, it takes three 
> times  the
> energy required to just charge the batterys in your EV to go the same
> distance?  Amazing stuff.
>
> Rob Neighbour
>
>
>
>
>
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