<VV> Brake performance WAS Brakes grabbing

[kenpepke at juno.com]

I am sure that most on this list understand that brakes work by converting the energy of vehicle inertia to heat.  The brake drums absorb that heat then it is dissipated into the atmosphere.  Brakes 'fade' when the heat generated comes at a rate faster and greater than the drums can dissipate.  Drum and shoe systems experience increased pedal travel as the drums expand with heat generated and disc and pad systems experience reducing pedal travel as the  disc expands.  Bottom line is If your brakes do not fade under heavy use you are simply not stopping the vehicle fast enough to generate enough heat to saturate the drums.  

Back in the day GM put a lot of engineering into the Corvair brake system.  They certainly met or exceeded the standards of their day.  Lots of the readers on this forum were around when the Corvair was new and are well aware of the fact that those days are long gone.  Roads are different, traffic volumes are different, speeds are different, driver expectations are different, and driving skill requirements have increased.  It does not take a Rhodes Scholar to realize the Corvair brakes have not changed to meet the new day.

An interesting anecdote:  I bought a new ElCamino in January of 1969 ... with those Chevelle drum brakes.  About 70,000 miles later the shoes were in need of replacement.  My junkyard owner friend had bought a '69 SS Chevelle that had been neatly folded in half around a tree.  He gave me the entire disc brake system and I converted the ElCamino.  The first time I hit the new brakes I thought it was never going to stop!  At speeds below 30 MPH the old drum brakes stopped the car faster than the discs! .... at 65 or 70 MPH the discs were a __dramatic__ improvement.
Ken P
*********************************************


Tony Underwood <tony.underwood at cox.net> writes:


At 03:18 PM 8/4/2009, ScottyGrover at aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 8/4/09 5:33:07 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>kenpepke at juno.com writes:
>
>I would  still hesitate  to use a LM in daily service today without
>upgrading the  brakes.  Sure, I know lots of guys do BUT there is 
>added risk ...
>the  more risks one takes the greater the chance of loss.
>Ken  P
>
>
>
>I used to have a set of cerametallic brakes on my LM's, but, in  Denver, I
>couldn't find them anywhere (even at Steve and Speed's Corvair  shop) so I
>just became very careful how I drove.  Since then, I've asked  around in L.A.
>but the 'Vair houses don't have them and regular brake shops tell  me that
>even if I could find a set, they refuse to install them.  I think  that they
>think they'd lose money because the cerams last so long. But  it so seldom
>rains here that I don't have a problem with drums getting wet  and fading.
>A**holes on the freeway are another thing altogether!  I  try to compensate
>for the slower reflexes of old age by staying well behind the  car ahead of
>me; for this, I get the finger from other drivers as they pull in  RIGHT in
>from of me.  BTW, I'm driving in what is called " laughingly" the  slow
>lane--doing the limit or maybe 5 MPH under that.
>





I've driven pretty aggressively in that late ragtop.   I will 
sometimes dive off interstate ramps at ridiculous speeds to play with 
cornering.    I've tested brakes by making several hardcore panic 
stops in a row.   I've never been able to make the factory style 
brakes on that ragtop fade enough to make me bother with even 
thinking about upgrading them.    They work quite nicely.


I'll go one better.


I drive a Corvair regularly that's within a few months of being 50 
years old.   It still has its factory style brakes.


I've done panic stops in THAT car several times in a row and then did 
a hardcore emergency-measures stop and it still would lock up all 
four tires.   That's about as hard as the brakes are capable of 
working if they will still lock up all four tires after three panic stops.


I trust that ancient Corvair's brakes just fine, thanks.   It 
currently has relatively fresh shoes, and the lines have all been 
replaced over the last several years, one at a time as I've gotten to 
them.  The one under the tank is still original but when I last had 
the tank out it looked fine, still shiny along most of its length so 
I left it there.   (if it works don't fix it)   Next is the two front 
brake hoses (rear ones were recently swapped out) since I checked 
them last weekend and noticed some cracks in the rubber outsides.




...I also put it through the hard-harder test now and again, jus' 'cause.





...highway speeds, hands off the wheel, stab the brakes and stop the 
car hard without locking up any tires and it comes to a halt 
STRAIGHT, steering wheel never moves.



That ain't bad.   No argument with the brakes on that '60 
4-door.    It's approaching its first quarter-million miles now and 
the front end sheet metal remains undented over it's half-century of 
life by its archaic inadequate out of style ineffective compared to 
today drum brakes.



tony..


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