<VV> oh no - FWD vs RWD

[djtcz at comcast.net]

snipped and bottom posted 
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----- Original Message ----- 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 19:23:38 -0400 
From: "airvair at earthlink.net" <airvair at earthlink.net> 
Subject: <VV> squirrely FWD, was: supersize wheels 

JR, you're SO right! People praise front drive for the wrong reasons. 
They're all, no doubt, used to "conventional" cars like the '75 Nova 2dr 
sedan "stripper" or the '71 Buick Estate Wagon that I used to have (both of 
'em). Those kind of cars are miserable in the winter or on slippery 
pavement. Which is why a lot of people like having the engine over the 
drive wheels (as in a front driver.) If people really wanted to know just 
how bad front drive is, they should try a rear engine, front drive car (and 
that's also why there are none of them). 

The main problem with front drive is that once you break the traction 
wheels loose, you've also lost all steering control. It just slides off 
wherever it wants. With a rear driver, at least you'll still have some 
semblemce of steering control left. And THAT may make the difference 
between hitting a bridge abutment and missing it. Yes, front drivers are 
not immune to breaking traction. They can even do it just on engine torque 
alone, or for that matter, just backing off the throttle. I've seen it 
happen, or even had it happen to me. So if any car needs traction control, 
it's the front drivers. They should have it mandated by law. It's also why 
front drivers have pointed me more times towards the ditch than all the 
rear drivers I've ever owned put together. BTW, "squirrley" is absolutely 
THE best, most a accurate word I can think of to describe front drive, IMO. 

A note in passing: Probably few conventional cars were as capable as my '84 
Impala police car. For a front-engine, rear-drive car, it always behaved 
admirably in winter weather. Would that the others were like it. 

Corvair content: 
I've driven everything short of 4WD, and found NOTHING (possibly short of 
4WD) goes as well in the winter as a Corvair. Corvairs have put me thru 
most of 15 winters, and if it weren't for the salt paving crews here in the 
rustbelt (they don't call it that for nothing), I'd STILL be driving them 
in the winter. 

So you can keep your squirrley front drivers, thank you very much. I'll 
take a rear driver, preferably a REAR engine rear driver, any day. 

-Mark 

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I've had some good results using Tires to make, or, accidentally break, a car's snow behavior. That is a "specification" that can not be read in a brochure or tech spec page of a road test. Wheelbase, BHP, peak torque rpm, transmission type, sound system watts, even the all-important 0-60 time and a the glamour of a hearty sticker price are, sadly, not good indicators of snow performance. 
Even with a good car/tire combo, the limits of useful control can be extended. But the driver must understand and have practiced some not-very-intuitive techniques useful to persuade severe understeer to start over as "steer." 

"...with front drive is that once you break the traction wheels loose, you've also lost all steering control. It just slides off 
wherever it wants. " 
http://www.piratenews.org/cafepress-com-piratenews-fwd-understeer.gif 

In the mid 70s I fitted my Corsa with 195-70-13 Michelin American Xs on the front wheels. Even with the spare in the trunk (extra front weight) under many Massachusetts winter conditions those tires were too wide and too smooth to forge a very useful traction link with the road, so, from time to time the steering (including going straight) just disappeared. Riding dirt bikes had taught me a few lessons about the importance of throttle control and steering with the rear wheel(s), so I got by with the Corvair in the winters, which is to say I never went too far off the road, even pulling a bike trailer in a snowstorm up and down hills along Rte 2. About that time I got a used Renault 16 (FWD) as a second vehicle due to Complex Circumstances that included dark haired girls with big eyes driving dark green cars. The Renault with its typical FWD front weight bias and skinny euro Michelin X 155 tires was simply miraculous in snow and slush, at least compared to my "improved" Corvair. 

Here are some pix of recent rally type cars. I think it is significant They seem to be fitted with crazy tires narrower than come stock even on typical econ0-cars. 
http://www.strangevehicles.com/images/content/145393.jpg 
http://www.autonewscast.com/wp-content/uploads/ford/hirvonennorway09.jpg 

A Volvo 740 with some name brand all-seasons slithered and stalled on the tiniest upgrade. 
Add Tall, Narrow studless snows on all 4 wheels and it hauled the family surefootedly through slush snow and ice. And sufficient traction was available for lurid powerslides and other hijinx. 
My daughter's factory punked out Civic uses P215/45R17 tires. We eagerly fitted some studless snows and it remained a tractionless pig. The giant brakes prohibit fitting a more sensible sized tire.