<VV> Rust stopping-humor

Sat Mar 7 12:27:01 EST 2009

This is most definitely true. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to fix rust 
on their Vair unless they had a really good reason to (i.e. the car is 
sentimentally valuable or monetarily valuable). And Vairs are among the 
cheaper cars to restore, because the parts availability is so good and they 
are relatively simple.

I have learnt this the hard way myself - when I fixed my Dad's Fiat in the 
70s it was because I liked the car and as I was a schoolkid my time was my 
own (and it was way better than watching TV) (well, I think so anyway!). 
(;-))

Then I restored the old Ford that I still have now. I did that when I was at 
college, and again this was because I had a lot of one commodity (time) and 
not much of another (money). As long as that equation holds, restoring a car 
is fine.

However, once your time becomes more valuable than that of a schoolchild or 
a student, the economics of it die completely. All of the next 10 or so cars 
that I restored cost me money to do so (i.e. I sold them for less than I had 
in them).

I then worked out that I was in effect paying people for the privilege of 
restoring the car I had just sold them, and I decided this was silly, so I 
went into the business of fixing cars for other people. That works great, 
because I get paid for my time and the fact that their car is worth less 
than they have in it isn't my problem.

But, being an honest and sympathetic should, I hate to see people waste 
their money, so when they book their car into us for bodywork I invariably 
tell them the above. I say to them that their car is worth X dollars now 
(say for the sake of argument $2000). I then say to them that it will cost X 
dollars to fix the rust (call it $2000 again), and that there is no way that 
their car will be worth X + X dollars at the end (in this case it would be 
$4000). I say to them that in my view it is not sensible to pay me $2000 to 
restore a $2000 car that will be worth (say) $3000 when it is finished.

To date, EVERY SINGLE customer that I have told that to has gone ahead and 
had their car fixed anyway. The most extreme example is an Irish guy 
recently who didn't want us to do the work (he's there and we are here!), 
but he wanted a whole long list of parts so that he could get the car done 
in Ireland. The cost of the parts came to well over $3000, and the 
restorer's bill will be at least another $10-15000 (I am converting the 
money for you - he talks in euros and we talk in pounds).

So he will have $20000 or so in the car when it is finished (he still needs 
more parts). The car is an absolute shed at the moment - it has a horrible 
interior, the body is absolutely rusted to death, etc., etc., etc. It is a 
Lancia Fulvia, and a lot of the parts for those are unavailable and/or 
expensive (including the interior - he'll never get one of those).

So his $20000 car will not be very good when it's done (say condition 2 or 
3). I suggested gently that he could get a perfect one from Italy for $10000 
or so, and I even offered to bring it over for him cheaply. In fact I found 
him one for sale (here it is: 
http://www.lanciaflavia.it/annunci/dettid.php?gb_id=70482 - not sure I could 
live with the colour but he didn't mind that).

What put him off buying the car was that he would waste what he already had 
in his (about $10000), and that this one is left-hand-drive. But he would 
have lost way less money if he just junked his existing car now than if he 
carries on.

And I can't believe that the guy would rather have a car that is a piece of 
cr*p than one that is in good condition, just because of the location of the 
steering wheel. In everyday driving LHD/RHD is unnoticeable after a few days 
(of the 20 or so cars I own, about half are LHD and half RHD).

Anyway, he did like the rest of my customers - he's restoring a basket case 
and pouring thousands that he'll never get back into it. I did at least try 
to warn him.

Me? I don't restore cars for myself any more except the rare and valuable 
Lancia van I have. It's just not worth it - partly because I have 'wised up' 
to the above financial calculations and partly because I never have the 
spare time to work on my own when I have finished the customers' ones.

But mostly the reason I don't fix my own cars is because it is always 
cheaper and always better to buy a car that is in good condition in the 
first place. You end up with a car that is original (which in my view is 
always preferable) and has cost you less money. It took me 20 years to work 
out (but I have finally got there) that it is cheaper to pay $10000 for a 
Vair that is in perfect condition, than to pay $500 for one that needs 
restoring. But it's true. And you get a nicer car, however well the 
restoration has been done (because even when they are done to AACA Senior 
standard they don't look original and are 'too good' - i.e. way better than 
GM built them in the first place).

Cheers

Alan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Robbins" <therobbins82 at gmail.com>
To: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: <VV> Rust stopping-humor

> There is no better way to put two or three times what a car is worth than 
> to
> fix a bunch of rust. It's a labor of love, or stupidity, I could never
> figure out which it was? <GGG> My train of thought is, I saved a rare
> optioned car from the crusher and now have a concours priced driver 
> quality
> car. LOL It was worth doing ONCE, it's much cheaper and saner to go buy a
> turnkey car and go. Don't ask me how I know this.
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/davair1
>
> Joe R
> HMFICBBRT ( Until Boss gets back from the PW then back to AH )
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org
> [mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org] On Behalf Of Alan and Clare 
> Wesson
> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 6:44 AM
> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Subject: Re: <VV> Rust stopping-humor
>
> How do you think I learned to fix it? My Dad bought an 11 month old Fiat 
> in
> 1971 (when I was 13). It already had minor rust, and the deal was 
> basically
> that he would keep the car if I could keep it in good condition.
>
> I liked the car (he had promised it to me when I was old enough to drive,
> which is 17 here), and so I taught myself how to do it, and over the
> intervening 38 years I have been improving the techniques.
>
> And in fact I have discovered that, yes, Fiats and Lancias rusted - but
> there's not much that didn't. What in fact happened (it's well documented)
> was that Fiats and Lancias were as well-protected as any other car (better
> than many - my 51 Chev included) until 1965. In 1965 the Russians bought 
> the
>
> Lada factory equipment off them, and they paid Fiat (and Lancia) with 
> steel
> which turned out to have a very high scrap content.
>
> The outcome was that they rusted very badly until 1984, after which they
> were fully galvanised.
>
> So I just take great care not to buy a Fiat or a Lancia from between 1969
> and 1984. But as I don't like cars from that period anyway, this is no
> hardship.
>
> Cheers
>
> Alan
>
> P.S. The exception was the one that we had when I was 13, but 
> unfortunately
> I drove it head-on through a caravan (travel trailer) when I was 19.
>
> P.S. Sorry to answer a humorous email with a not humorous one.
>
> P.P.S. Vair content is that the 'flushable rocker panels' and inside of 
> the
> A post and rear lower part of the front fenders on a late model Vair are 
> at
> least as bad a rust trap, and at least as badly protected (i.e. not at 
> all,
> inside) as any Fiat or Lancia that I have ever worked on! And the
> windshields are almost identical to the Lancia ones that I use as an 
> example
>
> in my rust booklet (and as badly designed and protected - early bonded 
> glass
>
> was just a disaster waiting to happen).
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <Richard.Gaffney at gulfstream.com>
> To: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 12:26 PM
> Subject: Re: <VV> Rust stopping-humor
>
>
>>I worked on Fiats and Lancias just after graduating college in upstate NY,
>> and if memory serves me correctly they came with "factory  installed
>> rust"
>> as standard equipment...............Other cars had to go thru a New York
>> winter to get it...........
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Gaffney
>> 65 Corsa 140/4
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights 
>> are
>
>> the property
>> of the writer, please attribute properly. For help,
>> mailto:vv-help at corvair.org
>> This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America,
>> http://www.corvair.org/
>> Post messages to: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
>> Change your options:
>> http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/options/virtualvairs
>> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are
> the property
> of the writer, please attribute properly. For help,
> mailto:vv-help at corvair.org
> This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America,
> http://www.corvair.org/
> Post messages to: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
> Change your options: 
> http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/options/virtualvairs
> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are 
> the property
> of the writer, please attribute properly. For help, 
> mailto:vv-help at corvair.org
> This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America, 
> http://www.corvair.org/
> Post messages to: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
> Change your options: 
> http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/options/virtualvairs
> _______________________________________________ 