<VV> Reply... Subject: 64 Wagon

airvair at earthlink.net airvair at earthlink.net
Sat Nov 28 12:02:26 EST 2009


Bill, it's YOU that just doesn't get it.

I have no qualms about Smitty doing what he did. It's an admirable job. But
where I part ways with you is your contention that he built it just like GM
would have built it for him. Just look at ALL of GM's cars that they ever
built, and you'll find that when they produced a different body for a
particular line, they ALWAYS used paint and interior colors and schemes to
match the rest of the line. So in order for a '64 wagon to claim anything
other than "custom" it would HAVE to have the stock upholstery common to
4doors and coupes, and HAVE to have paint colors and schemes common with
other '64 Corvairs and EM wagons. His wagon blatently fails that test.

Contrast that with my (late, lamented) '69 Corsa. It had factory correct
paint (laquer, no less) and interior upholstery. One of the highest
complements I ever got was when a friend told me "Mark, you're the only one
I know who would make a custom car out of all stock parts." The car looked
EXACTLY what a '69 Corsa would have looked like, had GM made the Corsa
model. No foreign-to-GM tutone, no never-offered-by-GM upholstery. Just
pure '69 GM.

THAT is what defines the difference in a "what-if" concept car like my '69
Corsa and a "strictly-custom" car like Smitty's '64 wagon. And THAT is my
point.

-Mark


> [Original Message]
> From: Bill Hubbell <whubbell at cox.net>
> Subject: RE: <VV> Reply... Subject: 64 Wagon
>
> See, Mark, that's the problem - you just don't get it.  Once you build
> something that GM never made, all claims of Stock become irrelevant. 
Smitty
> has as much right to claim his car is a "Stock 1964 Corvair Wagon" as you
> have to claim you had a "1969 Corsa" or that you will have a "Late model
> Corvair Wagon".  Since they are ALL Custom jobs it is up to the restorer
to
> decide how they should look, and it is not up to you or I to claim
> otherwise.
>
> Smitty built the "1964 Wagon" the way he knew GM would have built it for
> him, just as you are building your cars the way you "know" GM would have
> built them.
>
> The purists (and I am one of them) will always be correct in calling these
> cars modified.  But then, Smitty never tried to enter his car in Concours
as
> "factory stock" or even as "street stock".  He did enter it in Concours,
> though, and it did eventually get called the "64 wagon"  It has earned
that
> right, just as the builder of a Corvair "El Corvino" has earned the right
to
> call his car that.  
>
> If Smitty then wants to talk about the handling characteristics of "the
'64
> wagon" in autocrossing, or the unique problems of releasing the exhaust
from
> the side of the car in the '64 wagon, he has earned that right as well.
> Regardless of whether you like the paint color, the interior upholstery
> (which he makes himself, by the way), or the fender skirts (also custom
made
> by Smitty), he can still say that those things were "standard" on the '64
> wagon because they ARE standard on his car - just like helicopter blades
are
> standard on all Corvair helicopters.
>
> In the long run, Mark, you are rendering your opinion that you do not like
> the look of the '64 wagon because you imagined that a '64 wagon should
look
> more like a '64 Sedan, coupe or convertible.  Sorry to disappoint you,
Mark,
> but that's NOT the way GM built the '64 wagons (and you can't prove me
> wrong, either).
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: RE: <VV> Reply... Subject: 64 Wagon
>
> Well Bill, you could also say that I had a '69 Corsa. But then, the
purists
> have had a hissy fit over that one for decades. The difference is that my
> '69 Corsa was pure stock. No custom paint job, no custom upholstery, no
> aftermarket fender skirts (and fender skirts were ALWAYS aftermarket on a
> Corvair - never "factory stock" by any means.) It was as pure stock as you
> could get, even down to the laquer paint color.
>
> While the factory DID offer tutone paint, they NEVER broke it up like
> what's on Smitty's car, and without a doubt wouldn't ever have done so
> (unless maybe you were buying a phone company car, or the like.) Nor did
> they offer upholstery on Corvairs that matched the kind of fabric and
> assembly variation that Smitty's car has. Regardless, any way you slice
it,
> is certainly more gaudy than any Corvair the factory ever built in any
> large quantity. And it looks like the custom car that it is. You of anyone
> should know that it isn't "stock" enough to be called that.
>
> And in the vein of the '69 Corsa, my LM wagon will be closer to stock than
> Smitty's car, guaranteed. It'll have the stock paint layout, stock
> upholstery pattern, even a more stock overall look. So the fact that they
> didn't build that body style that year is irrelevant. What IS the point is
> that sooner or later one WILL exist. It exists now, just that the bodywork
> isn't completed yet. Would you say a car that hasn't had the restoration
> bodywork completed doesn't exist?
>
> And in case you doubt that I don't admire Smitty for his efforts at a
> custom EM, think again. Anyone who has rebuilt/restored a car has my
> admiration. He's done a great job, and I especially admire his driving it
> all over creation. But I'm calling a spade a spade, and calling Smitty's
> car exactly what it is, a custom car. No disrespect intended whatsoever.
>
> Get over it.
>
> -Mark
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Bill Hubbell <whubbell at cox.net>
> > Subject: RE: <VV> Reply... Subject: 64 Wagon
> >
> > Mark is making an absurd argument.  First of all, no matter what Mark
does
> > to "imagineer" a Late Model station wagon, it will always be a more
> > fictional vehicle than Smitty's "64" wagon for the following reasons:
> >
> > 1. GM actually did make EM wagons and Smitty's wagon body is pure stock
in
> > that regard; Mark's won't be by any stretch.
> >
> > 2. GM actually did offer two-tone paint for EM vehicles, and, although
> > Smitty's colors are not Factory Stock, who is to say that they would not
> > have been if a '64 wagon had been made?  It was also possible to get
> > 'custom' paint jobs from the factory, and I suspect that had wagons been
> > available in 1964 this would have been a probable choice.
> >
> > 3. There actually were some EM Corvairs (1961) that came with
cloth/vinyl
> > seats (much like Smitty's wagon, although, again, not in that color).
> >
> > 4. Wheel skirts were already an option for EM sedans and coupes.  It is
> > probable that they would have been available for wagons had they been
made
> > beyond 1962, so the fact that a '64 wagon would have them is perfectly
> > plausible.
> >
> > Bottom line, Mark, Smitty's '64 wagon IS a reality (and has been ever
> since
> > it was built in 1989).  For 20 years it has been plying the highways and
> > byways of this great country, logging over 300,000 miles (most of which
> > pulling a trailer or some other such thing) and generally showing the
> world
> > exactly how BIG a mistake GM made by NOT making more of them.  It has
been
> > an ambassador of Goodwill for ALL Corvairs for longer than many VV
readers
> > have even OWNED a Corvair.  It's value to our Corvair community has been
> > validated by awards too many to count, including Senior Class Concours,
> > numerous 1st place Autocross awards, etc.  It has earned our RESPECT and
> > ADMIRATION.
> >
> > Live with it.
> >
> > Bill
>




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