<VV> Picking is OK.

Sat Mar 5 20:10:25 EST 2011

James,

Just a comment on being the only living grandfather.  Your grandkids are 
lucky to have a nice guy, that you seem to be, as a grandfather.  I 
never had grandparents, my Mother was an orphan raised by her Aunt and 
Uncle who I never knew and my father's grandparents died before I was 
born.  I am sure those kids will profit from your advice and wisdom.  
Ain't grandchildren wonderful?  I have ten, 3 boys and 7 girls.  The six 
over 11 all want their grandmothers 65 Mustang.  I imagine one of them 
will want the CORVAIR and I think I know which one, but she's only 7 and 
hasn't said anything YET.  If I ever get to the 62 Corvair vert I imgine 
all of the girls will want it.

P. S. CORVAIR content.... Iwish I had been there for the race.

Ted

On 3/5/2011 5:51 PM, James P. Rice wrote:
> Tony:  Sorry I'm tardy getting back to you all with the real info.  I've
> been off with our kids and g'kids, dealing with stuff and working on my
> stack of what Pete Egan referred to as " The things they will immediately
> sell (or throw out) the minute you are dead."  OK, it may take a couple of
> weeks, but they have no use for most of my inventory of stuff.  My oldest
> grandson, age 9, recently asked me if he can have all my model airplanes
> when I die.  I said sure, and anything else you want.  We lost his other
> Papa a year ago.  The other grandfather parted this life as we know it
> before any of our other daughters 3 children could form any memories.
> Sometimes it is very uncomfortable being the only living grandfather to our
> 5 grandchildren.
>
> So, Tony, you are absolutely correct about the 4-speed history.  This is
> what happens when you read a story as a 16 yr old in R&T, save the picture
> of the Corvair, but not the article or the magazine.  When I found that
> issue many years ago, I read it again and file it in a folder for a
> Communique article named "Corvair Racing: 1959 thru 1968".  Then forget to
> remember to check the article before telling the tale which Tony correctly
> called me on.  Sorry.  My bad.
>
> OK, here is briefly what happened at the first road race the Corvair was in,
> fall of 1959.  They got beat by Falcons and Rambler Americans for two
> reasons.  First, all the cars had 3-speeds.  Because of the final drive
> ratios (hay Frank, remember those things!), the Corvairs had to drive the
> entire course in 3rd.  The Falcons and Ramblers had a different rear axle
> ratio, which allowed them to use 2nd gear coming off the corners.  Corvair
> would catch them in the corners, they would pull away on the straights.
> Only way to get by was if one of them made a mistake.  But the pass would
> not stick for long.  Then there were the tire problems.  Two different
> brands for the Corvairs.  The left rear tire on for brand x would wear out
> and them blow out.  Causing at least on 'vair to flip.  Brand Y would merely
> wear out, but there weren't enough of them.  So to many pit stops.
>
> Round 1 to them.  It didn't get much better for Corvairs in sedan racing.
> Ever.  Next race, Corvairs had 4 speeds and Duntov in the pits.  Not much
> better.  Yenko Stingers five years later, were a different story, but they
> were not sedans according to the rules.
>
> Not stuck in a car that will barely keep up with its shadow, I remain,
>
> Historically Yours,
> 			James
>
> PS: Lates eat earlies on road courses.  Unless Smitty or Marlow are driving.
> Then watch out.  VBG!!!
>
> *************************************
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 02:02:20 -0500
> From: Tony Underwood<tony.underwood at cox.net>
> Subject: Re:<VV>  Smitty beats most everybody.
> To:<virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>
> At 06:29 PM 2/24/2011, James P. Rice wrote:
>> PSS:  One of the main reasons Corvairs got beat in their very first ever
> road race was because they had 3-speeds and the Falcons and Ramblers had
> 4-speeds.  Multiple gears matter.  Oh. wait, that's the historian speaking.
> Oops.  Sorry.  Actually, no I'm not!!
>
> Not to pick...
>
> But when did Falcons have a 4-speed gearbox before 'Vairs?   By the time
> Falcons were available with 4-speeds, Corvairs had already had them a year.
> Ford rushed the Falcon 4-speed into production in order to compete with the
> Corvairs that had 4-speeds, and to do it they had to use an English 4-speed
> with a case casting that had a Ford small bellhousing bolt pattern.
>
> It was a light transmission, think it was originally for an Anglia.  I could
> pick one up and lift it up over my shoulder with one arm.   It was not the
> most durable gearbox ever... the Falcon 6-banger would bust it with ease.
> And did.   A holeshot in an early Falcon with even the little 6 (144) would
> shear teeth off the cluster gear if the car had any sort of tire on back.
> My buddy up the street from high school days had a sweet little Falcon his
> dad bought
> new.   Very clean, straight, baby blue, went everywhere in it.   Wayne HAD
> to have a 4-speed... original 3 speed was simply not cool enough.
>
> It was a mistake.   He managed to turn up a 4-speed and got it in the car.
> It broke in less than a week.   Another 4-speed... broke it.   A 3rd.  This
> as you could guess began to get expensive...  he resorted back to 3 speeds
> because there were no more 4-speeds in the
> local junkyards.   He started breaking them too, since by this time he'd
> gotten some tires on the back.   After a couple more 3-speeds and at least
> one more 4-speed, he'd had enough.
>
> By the time he gave up and put a 302 with a T-10 in the Falcon (I spent a
> weekend with him at the machine shop where he worked fabricating various
> bits and pieces to make all THAT work out), there was a pile of busted 3 and
> 4 speed gearboxes in back of Wayne's house, stacked like cordwood by the
> shed.   I am serious... there must have been a dozen or more.
>
> Keep in mind that Ford was supplying Rambler's smaller cars with manual
> transmissions at that time (Chrysler,GM, and B-W (later, Ford) was supplying
> them with automatics) and the only way a Rambler got a 4-speed in '62 was if
> Ford sent it to them in the form of that English thing.   If 'Vairs were
> getting outrun in those road races, it sure wasn't because of the
> transmissions of the day.   The Ford-import 4-speeds would have broken
> before the race was over.   Likewise any Mopar compacts, which didn't get
> 4-speeds til '63 (T-10) and didn't get their own (A833) in-house 4-speed
> until '64... unless you count that ultra-rare sweet shifting French 4-speed
> gearbox that went into some earlier Chrysler 300s.    In fact, the Mopar
> compact-car 3-speed wasn't much better than the Ford compact 3-speed and
> tended to shed a tooth or two off the cluster if you horsewhipped it.
> Never saw a Mopar 3-speed in a Rambler...  did see T-10s in later V8
> Ramblers though.
>
> It wasn't the lack of a 4-speed that caused any roadrace injustices.  In
> fact, Corvairs had 4-speeds "regular" before any of the other compacts in
> the USA.   And, I know for a fact that an early Corvair gearbox, 3-speed or
> otherwise, was more durable than the competition at the time.
>
> ...just thought I'd mention it.
>
> tony..
>
> PS:   Chrysler and Ford turned the tables on beefiness with their own
> 4-speeds, A833 and Toploader, both of which are legendary for strength and
> durability
>
>
>
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