<VV> Porsche Cooling

Sat Sep 10 15:18:02 EDT 2011

Ron, 
You can be upset, but I think they are right. 

I am no historian on things, but I believe, the Corvair was developed in a VERY tightly controlled by "bean counters" time period. It was to be an econo-car, but when it didn't fair well against the competition the development money available for it became very limited. I feel the guiding forces for the Corvair tried to make the best use of the developmental money available to them. Porsche on the other hand was after an entirely different market sector - one that looked for engineering and technology development - that was willing to pay for their product. 

Chevrolet, either didn't educate the American public correctly or made the Corvair for the wrong market and did so in the wrong manner. I feel lucky that they made the car at all. 

I like my '66 Corvair Corsa, 

Bernie Vogler 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <ronh at owt.com> 
To: ricebugg at mtco.com, virtualvairs at corvair.org, jvhroberts at aol.com 
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 2:16:36 PM 
Subject: Re: <VV> Porsche Cooling 

What's all this nonsense about comparing details between a Porsche and the 
Corvair? In case you haven't noticed, there's a slight difference in the 
money involved on these two vehicles! It's comparable to comparing a Cessna 
150 to a P 51 Mustang and criticizing the Cessna because it wasn't equal to 
the P 51. The delete button is the only recourse. 
Ronh 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jvhroberts at aol.com> 
To: <ricebugg at mtco.com>; <virtualvairs at corvair.org> 
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 10:49 AM 
Subject: Re: <VV> Porsche Cooling 

> 
> From a clean sheet approach, one of the ways to improve the cooling 
> ability of air cooled engines is to use lots of little cylinders instead 
> of a few larger ones, and an 8 cylinder 91 CID engine certainly fits that 
> description! After all, VW had engines that size with half the cylinders. 
> 
> Porsche chose the flat 6 for the 911 because the 4 cylinder design was a 
> dead end as far as their performance targets go. Same goes as to why they 
> chose OHC, 8 main bearings, etc. 
> 
> Your point about the stillborn evolution of the Corvair is spot on. Once 
> they decided on a PG trannied econocar, little was done to advance beyond 
> that stage. Look at a 1965 180HP engine and a 1960 80 HP engine, and 
> outside the induction equipment, the differences aren't impressive. 
> Whereas a Porsche 2.0L 911T engine vs. a 3.0L 911 SC engine a decade and 
> a half later are night and day. 
> 
> Not to defend Porsche or spank Chevy, but this is pretty much how it is. 
> I've actually seen more improvements from individuals and the aftermarket 
> for Corvairs than GM ever did!! LOL 
> 
> 
> 
> John Roberts 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: James P. Rice <ricebugg at mtco.com> 
> To: virtualvairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org> 
> Sent: Sat, Sep 10, 2011 11:59 am 
> Subject: <VV> Porsche Cooling 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the tardy response, but Porsche certainly had figured out how to 
> cool the center 4 cylinders of their 1.5L flat 8-cylinder F1 engine. But 
> then they used a shaft driven flat fan. 
> 
> There is some reason to believe Porsche known Chevy R&D had stuffed a 
> Corvair into the back of a 356 and said stuffing may have influenced them 
> going to a 2L 6 cylinder. 
> 
> But trust me, Porsche had the brains and talent to do what they did even 
> if 
> Chevy produced the Chevy II in 1959 instead of the Corvair. Which 
> actually 
> probably would have sold a lot better than the Corvair, give the sales 
> response to the Falcon. Remember the Falcon set new car sales records 
> that 
> first year and out sold the Corvair 2 or 3 to one for both of their 
> production lives. SFAIK, nobody in this community has considered the 
> impact 
> of Chevy II sales on the demise of the Corvair. 
> 
> The belt drive fan on the Corvair was designed for an economy car with a 
> automatic transaxle. When Chevy put a manual into the car, and folks 
> could 
> go out and play boy racer by banging shifts up and down, there were 
> problems. Compounded by nobody knowing how tight or loose to adjust them. 
> In the 2nd race the Corvair ever participated in, they (apparently Chevy 
> R&D) had created and installed the first spring load idler pulley on the 
> cars with good success. 
> 
> Historically Yours, 
> James Rice 
> 
> ------------------------------ 
> 
> Message: 8 
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:12:02 -0400 
> From: Marc Sheridan <sheridanma1966 at gmail.com> 
> Subject: Re: <VV> Mecum Monterey - 63 Vair 
> To: Wrsssatty at aol.com 
> Cc: virtualvairs at corvair.org 
> 
> Bob Benzinger told us in Flagstaff that Porsche could not figure out how 
> to 
> cool the center cylinders until Chevrolet did it with the Corvair. 
> 
> Marc Sheridan 
> 
> ------------------------------ 
> 
> Message: 9 
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:25:46 -0400 
> From: "BBRT" <chsadek at comcast.net> 
> Subject: <VV> '63 911 - '63 Vair 
> To: <virtualvairs at corvair.org> 
> 
> Well, maybe Porsche had a problem with their center cylinders on their 
> development 6 cylinder engines, but the 911 came out in '63. First US 
> models 
> were delivered in '65, the last year of their 356. They sure didn't adopt 
> the right-angle Corvair belt driven cooling fan... :>) 
> 
> Chuck S 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marc Sheridan" <sheridanma1966 at gmail.com> 
> 
>> Bob Benzinger told us in Flagstaff that Porsche could not figure out how 
> to cool the center cylinders until Chevrolet did it with the Corvair. 
>> 
>> Marc Sheridan 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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