<VV> Wire wheels -- hammers and so forth

Eric S. Eberhard eric at vicsmba.com
Tue Oct 13 16:59:23 EDT 2015


I stand corrected on the year for the center change :-)  And those are 
the combos I have seen on arrows (on each on/off, both off, both on, and 
nothing).  My opinion is the "nothings" are re-chromes where that level 
of detail could not be kept.  I took some to have chromed and the shops 
all said they could not guarantee the detail would remain.  I don't 
think they made any with no arrows.  Mine are all two "off" arrows.  
And, I noticed while looking, I still have my old stainless caps (not 
the repros) in the wheels.  Little color-challenged but now I think I'll 
leave them.

I put this in here because a LOT of concourse cars have K-H wheels.  
Almost all are fakes.  They have been "rebuilt" with stainless spokes 
and new rims (I think that means only the center portion is original -- 
90% is reproduction some with the wrong materials).  The centers don't 
match and often many will have no arrows (re-chromed).  So they cobbled 
up some crappy wheels, chromed a lot of stuff, and then call it original 
and get big points in the shows.  And spent big dollars.  It was nice 
when you could get a nice full set with hammer and mount for spare and 
all for $800.00  If that is your thing ... these rebuilt sets are 5k and 
more.  I made more money on those wheels than I ever did on cars as I 
hoarded a lot when they were cheap.  The last two sets they asked me to 
ship the spinners only (Corvette people) so I have spare wheels if 
anyone needs one.  They all need some work (rechrome or the full 
stainless route).

My wheels -- all original.  No stainless spokes.  Small marks on 
original rims.  Original centers (I am getting senile, I was pretty sure 
I changed those).  I like it that way -- all original and matching.

Another thing that drives me insane on these concours cars and judges is 
the extras besides wheels.  A 64 car could easily have 63 centers 
because they were a dealer installed, moved around from car-to-car, etc. 
option.  Dealers would take them off cars people wanted (but would not 
pay for the wires), put them on some other car, etc.  In 62 the oil 
filter should be blue with red letters.  Older were black with white.  
Later were blue with white and white with red.  And I probably missed a 
few.  Once again, the 62 car could easily come with a black/white filter 
-- but NEVER with a white/red filter.  The clocks changed after 61.  It 
is a dealer installed option.  If you bought a 62 he went to his shelf 
and grabbed a clock -- gasp, maybe a 61 clock -- and put it on.  It is 
just fine for a 62 to have a 61 clock, it is NOT fine for a 61 to have a 
62 clock.  I drive my car, so I don't care that much, but every once in 
a while someone has to tell me that my 62 has a 61 clock (actually I 
replaced it finally with a 62 clock -- less annoying), or whatever,

Dealers grabbed what they had when you asked for dealer options.  The 
years don't have to be identical, just logical (e.g. the part must have 
existed at the time the car was delivered).

So I think black filters and 61 clocks are fine on a 62.  In fact, my 
favorite filter is indeed the black one.  It is a minority opinion, and 
generally not shared by the concours crowd.  I am in the weird crowd -- 
I stay original but for a few safety items (like radials) ... and drive 
them.  All my cars would score in the 90s but would never win a concours 
on a national level unless they add a daily driver class.

Eric


On 10/13/2015 1:12 PM, Dusty Steinberg wrote:
>
> To add to what Eric has written, I have seen the knock offs with 
> arrows stamped showing both on and off,  both off, both on, and on one 
> knock off, it was marked off and on, and the arrows were pointing 
> toward the same direction.  Back in the early 1980's, I spoke to the 
> engineer at Kelsey Hayes that was in charge of the project for the 
> Chevrolet wheels.  I learned a lot of information from him, such as 
> the earlier knock offs, had the ears closer to the spokes, and that 
> they changed them to be further out, so the spokes wouldn't get hit.  
> There was also a label in the later production wheels that said to tap 
> the spokes with a coin to see if they had come loose.  The spoke 
> threads were set in an epoxy that kept them from coming loose, but 
> occasionally, a spoke would come lose even though the epoxy was 
> applied.  That was the reason for the label on the inside of the 
> wheel. I have a complete set of the engineering drawings that he sent 
> to me.
>
> I would also like to point out that the stainless steel center cap was 
> used in 1962 & 1963, and changed to the aluminum black electroplated 
> logo for the 1964 model.
>
> Paul in CT
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: "Eric S. Eberhard"
>     Sent: Oct 13, 2015 3:56 PM
>     To: virtualvairs at corvair.org, noahsarkinc at earthlink.net,
>     judynrandy at comcast.net
>     Subject: Wire wheels -- hammers and so forth
>
>     I have had a LOT of wire wheels -- 20 sets at one time, 4 cars
>     with them at a time for a while.  I still run one car with K-H
>     wheels and have some spares.
>
>     The very best way to get the spinners on and off is indeed the
>     plastic covered lead pellet type hammer.  Probably what the snap
>     on is.  Mine came from NAPA.  I also am protective but I don't use
>     wood, I use cardboard.  I take a thick box folded in half and
>     place it where I am going to strike.  This works well.  And
>     re-chroming is not only costly, but actually ruins them (you can
>     usually tell).  There is a lot of fine print on the spinners about
>     direction and so forth.
>
>     Trivia for the day -- the arrows are NOT all the same -- not in
>     location or design.  A true original set will have all matching
>     arrows.  Cobbled together sets -- especially by people that were
>     hoarders like me and did not know better (I did) --- will end up
>     with a mixed set.  I don't know why this is -- 62 Corvette used
>     the same spinner and it is tempting to say one was Corvette and
>     one was Corvair.  Except I have seen four distinct designs
>     (including location -- really 2 designs and 2 locations).
>
>     They should be put on not terribly tight.  They are directional --
>     right sides need to be on the right, left on left.  This makes the
>     normal activity of driving tend to tighten rather than loosen.  So
>     you don't have to make them super tight -- just tight enough to
>     hold them and not wobble.  Then an extra whack or two.  Then
>     stop.  They generally come off fairly easily if done this way.
>
>     By general rule on all things old cars -- especially Corvairs --
>     don't over tighten.  And the raw lead hammer will deform and then
>     damage the chrome.  I hide the NAPA hammer, and leave the pristine
>     lead one out for show.
>
>     Trivia two for the day -- the hammers are almost never correct. 
>     ALL the K-H wheels are 62 wheels that carried over as they did not
>     sell.  All the hammers, then, are 62 hammers.  Like Corvettes
>     (sadly my spinners were sold to Corvette people as they are the
>     same and they pay 10 time as much for a set of spinners as I could
>     get for an entire set of wheels) the hammer changed in 63.  All
>     replacements (NOS or otherwise were 63+ style).  You can fake it
>     easily.  I made several.  You have to shorten the handle, use a
>     punch and put some dimples in two places, and add weld marks which
>     are not present on later hammers all around the head of the
>     hammer.  Many people just figure, black lead hammer, all good. 
>     And never know they have the wrong one.  Finding a correct one is
>     almost impossible.  Buying replicas gets the wrong (63 style)
>     one.  The only way I know of is to get a 63 (replica or otherwise)
>     and modify it.  Or get lucky and get a real one.  I kept a real
>     one (the lead is messy) and modified a replica so they are
>     identical (lead pretty).  And use the shot filled hammer for real
>     life.
>
>     Oh -- 62 centers are different too, the Clarks replicas are not
>     bad.  Different metal, but largely undetectable.  I run them on
>     the car and keep the originals in a drawer in case I ever get the
>     energy to restore them.
>
>     Eric
>
>
>
>
>     On 10/13/2015 9:00 AM, virtualvairs-request at corvair.org wrote:
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>>     http://www.vv.corvair.org/archive.htm
>>
>>     Today's Topics:
>>
>>         1. Re: Centering the Pressure Plate (Harry Yarnell (Verizon))
>>         2. Re: Distributor swap? (Bryan Blackwell)
>>         3. Re: Distributor swap? (Sethracer at aol.com)
>>         4. clutch disc thickness revisited (judynrandy at comcast.net)
>>         5. wire wheel question (judynrandy at comcast.net)
>>         6. Re: wire wheel question (Dusty Steinberg)
>>
>>
>>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>     Message: 1
>>     Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 17:38:06 -0400
>>     From: "Harry Yarnell \(Verizon\)"<harryyarnell at verizon.net>
>>     To:<BobHelt at aol.com>,	"'corvair'"<virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>>     Subject: Re:<VV>  Centering the Pressure Plate
>>     Message-ID:<002d01d10536$4b1d7690$e15863b0$@net>
>>     Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>>     Bob, this is great in theory, but I've never had the flywheel/pressure plate
>>     balanced.
>>
>>     I've done countless clutch jobs and never had a balance issue.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     From:BobHelt at aol.com  [mailto:BobHelt at aol.com]
>>     Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 4:35 PM
>>     To:harryyarnell at verizon.net;egszuch at gmail.com;virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>     Subject: Re:<VV>  Centering the Pressure Plate
>>
>>
>>
>>     Hold on there for just a second.
>>
>>
>>
>>     It is highly recommended that you have the flywheel and pressure plate
>>     professionally balanced together. When this is done the balancer guy will
>>     identify how the two parts should be aligned with some punch marks or other
>>     means of showing alignment. So when you mount the PP onto the FW you need to
>>     align these markings to retain proper balance.
>>
>>     Bob Helt
>>
>>
>>
>>     In a message dated 10/12/2015 12:37:27 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,
>>     virtualvairs at corvair.org  writes:
>>
>>     As others have said, just bolt it up; it's a non-issue. The disc is what you
>>     should align. As someone else mentioned, use the input shaft.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------
>>
>>     Message: 2
>>     Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 17:58:13 -0400
>>     From: Bryan Blackwell<bryan at skiblack.com>
>>     To: Grant Young<gyoungwolf at earthlink.net>
>>     Cc:"virtualvairs at corvair.org"  <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>>     Subject: Re:<VV>  Distributor swap?
>>     Message-ID:<9CADE88D-6D51-435E-87DA-9E94A2952B5D at skiblack.com>
>>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>     Hi Grant,
>>
>>     I've run a couple different distributors in engines over the years and found that for overall use on a relatively stock engine the specified distributor does work best.  I'm sure there are some exceptions, but at this point I would to start with the correct one and go from there.
>>
>>     --Bryan
>>
>>        
>>>     On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:15 PM, Grant Young via VirtualVairs<virtualvairs at corvair.org>  wrote:
>>>
>>>     First, thanks for all the information on the AC set up on the car I have in the shop. As I continue to work through things, I have discovered it has a 1964 95 HP motor, but with the 110 HP distributor that was in its original 1965 110. Was this an acceptable parts swap? It redlines okay, but falls on its face on the road at higher rpms.
>>>          
>>     ------------------------------
>>
>>     Message: 3
>>     Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:17:48 -0400
>>     From:Sethracer at aol.com
>>     To:bryan at skiblack.com,gyoungwolf at earthlink.net
>>     Cc:virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>     Subject: Re:<VV>  Distributor swap?
>>     Message-ID:<385a24.8e06e61.434d999b at aol.com>
>>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>>     Grant - The issue you have is that you have the relative low compression
>>     and mild cam timing of the 95HP motor. No matter what timing you use, it will
>>       never be a high RPM motor. But, hey, you run regular gas! - Seth
>>
>>
>>     In a message dated 10/12/2015 2:58:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>>     virtualvairs at corvair.org  writes:
>>
>>     Hi  Grant,
>>
>>     I've run a couple different distributors in engines over the  years and
>>     found that for overall use on a relatively stock engine the  specified
>>     distributor does work best.  I'm sure there are some  exceptions, but at this point
>>     I would to start with the correct one and go  from there.
>>
>>     --Bryan
>>
>>        
>>>     On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:15 PM, Grant  Young via VirtualVairs
>>>          
>>     <virtualvairs at corvair.org>  wrote:
>>        
>>>
>>>     First, thanks for all the information on the AC set up on the car I  have
>>>          
>>     in the shop. As I continue to work through things, I have discovered it
>>     has a 1964 95 HP motor, but with the 110 HP distributor that was in its
>>     original 1965 110. Was this an acceptable parts swap? It redlines okay, but
>>     falls on its face on the road at higher rpms.
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     This message was  sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are
>>     the property
>>     of  the writer, please attribute properly. For help,
>>     mailto:vv-help at corvair.org
>>     This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of  America,
>>     http://www.corvair.org/
>>     Post messages to:VirtualVairs at corvair.org
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>>     Archives:http://www.vv.corvair.org/archive.htm
>>     _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------
>>
>>     Message: 4
>>     Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 03:18:31 +0000 (UTC)
>>     From:judynrandy at comcast.net
>>     To:virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>     Subject:<VV>  clutch disc thickness revisited
>>     Message-ID:
>>     	<361921451.3252418.1444706311293.JavaMail.zimbra at comcast.net>
>>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>>     I just wanted to say thanx to those who responded to my clutch questions.? The owner of said car in question relented and decided to spring for a whole clutch job.? Everything will be replaced.? Thanx again.
>>     ?
>>     Randy (Cap'n) Hook
>>     Hopewell,? PA
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------
>>
>>     Message: 5
>>     Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 03:23:12 +0000 (UTC)
>>     From:judynrandy at comcast.net
>>     To:virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>     Subject:<VV>  wire wheel question
>>     Message-ID:
>>     	<164621664.3254251.1444706592528.JavaMail.zimbra at comcast.net>
>>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>>     The aforementioned car needing the clutch job also came with wire wheels.? The real deal.? And boy are they gorgeous!!!? Anyway, this is my first experience with wire wheels.? I figured out how to get them off ok, but when I put them back on, how do I know how tight to tighten the "knock offs"?
>>     Randy (Cap'n) Hook
>>     Hopewell, PA
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------
>>
>>     Message: 6
>>     Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:14:04 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>>     From: Dusty Steinberg<noahsarkinc at earthlink.net>
>>     To:judynrandy at comcast.net,virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>     Subject: Re:<VV>  wire wheel question
>>     Message-ID:
>>     	<22886202.1444742044447.JavaMail.root at elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>>     	
>>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>>     According to the instructions that came with the car, to properly remove and install them, you should use a lead hammer.  My experience is that even the lead  hammer can damage the chrome on the wing of the knock off, so what I use is a piece of 2"x4" piece of wood that I can comfortably hold with my left hand, and then use a short handle 5# sledge hammer in my right hand, and hit the wood after it is place securely on the wing that I want to move.  This prevents any damage to the chrome, and as long as you don't swing the hammer wildly, you don't hit the spokes either.  This is how I have done this since getting my first Corvair with the Kelsey Hayes wire wheels.  I have seen some people use a brass hammer, and this will also damage the chrome.  I have never tried using a Snap On Dead Blow Hammer, but I believe that this would work without damaging the chrome on the wings, however, I don't want to gamble trying it with one of my pristine knock offs.  It cost too much to hav
>>     e
>>        them replated.
>>     Paul in CT
>>
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>        
>>>     From: Randy Hook via VirtualVairs<virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>>>     Sent: Oct 12, 2015 11:23 PM
>>>     To:virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>>     Subject:<VV>  wire wheel question
>>>
>>>     The aforementioned car needing the clutch job also came with wire wheels.? The real deal.? And boy are they gorgeous!!!? Anyway, this is my first experience with wire wheels.? I figured out how to get them off ok, but when I put them back on, how do I know how tight to tighten the "knock offs"?
>>>     Randy (Cap'n) Hook
>>>     Hopewell, PA
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are the property
>>>     of the writer, please attribute properly. For help,mailto:vv-help at corvair.org
>>>     This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America,http://www.corvair.org/
>>>     Post messages to:VirtualVairs at corvair.org
>>>     Change your options:http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/options/virtualvairs
>>>     Archives:http://www.vv.corvair.org/archive.htm
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>          
>>     ------------------------------
>>
>>     Subject: Digest Footer
>>
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>>     ------------------------------
>>
>>     End of VirtualVairs Digest, Vol 129, Issue 21
>>     *********************************************
>>
>>
>>        
>
>     -- 
>     Eric S. Eberhard
>     VICS
>     2933 W Middle Verde Road
>     Camp Verde, AZ  86322
>
>     928-567-3727  work                      928-301-7537  cell
>
>     http://www.vicsmba.com/index.html              (our work)
>     http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html      (fun pictures)
>

-- 
Eric S. Eberhard
VICS
2933 W Middle Verde Road
Camp Verde, AZ  86322

928-567-3727  work                      928-301-7537  cell

http://www.vicsmba.com/index.html             (our work)
http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html     (fun pictures)



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