<VV> The "Real" Astro I Powertrain
Mark Noakes
mark at noakes.com
Sat May 14 12:21:08 EDT 2005
I don't suppose that any engineering drawings for this engine exist?
Mark Noakes
----- Original Message -----
>
> At 06:54 hours 05/13/2005, werp knarly wrote:
> > the engine displayed looked complete enough... someone seems to have spec's
> > on it...
> >
> > was it also just a mock up? (say it aint so!)
>
>
>
> Nope, not a mockup. GM built several of these "cammer" engines. They displaced
> ~170ci or thereabouts and made some respectable horsepower. No cammer engine was
> ever installed in the Astro. One of the engines *did* make the car show tours with
> the car, but it was mounted on a stand and not in the car.
>
> Last time I picked and dug through the Astro-1 it had a 140 engine in it, or at least
> the engine was sporting 4 carbs, not running of course. The car oddly enough did
> have an electrical system... which you plugged into a wall outlet to work things.
> It was never intended to move under its own power although it likely could be made to
> do so with a little (OK,a LOT) bit of engineering work provided someone wasn't afraid
> to do some mods, which of course will never happen.
>
>
> According to scuttlebutt, GM scrapped the cammer engines when the Astro was done with
> the car show circuit, supposedly. It's not quite clear how many engines were built,
> but there were more than just one for sure, likely several more; one person said
> they'd been told there had been at least 7 engines assembled, but that's just
> hearsay.
>
> Now: (I've told this story before)
>
>
> I did some chasing around and digging, picking and poking people's minds as well as
> scrounging for eye-witness accounts anywhere I could find info, as to what became of
> these engines. I turned up some odd info from two different people regarding a
> "back door deal" which involved somehow who managed to sneak one of these engines out
> and away, whereupon it ended up in a late coupe. This particular story came from a
> non-Corvair (Camaro fanatic from Back When) guy who had attended a musclecar
> get-together and was talking about Camaros with some other people when someone
> brought up Corvairs whereupon the anecdote came up. It seemed this fellow's cousin
> or someone was acquainted with the person with the Corvair and while "hanging out"
> with the circle of friends, he'd gotten a look at the engine in the car which had odd
> 3xbbl carbs and cams in the heads driven by belts, oddest thing he'd ever seen,
> whereupon I'd perked up bigtime, and asked for more details.
>
> The guy said that his cousin (or whoever, I forget the exact relation since I was
> sidetracked) had told him that the Corvair guy had relatives who worked for GM or he
> in fact had worked for GM in some capacity, and wanted one of the engines which along
> with others were slated to be cut up and recycled. Supposedly, this guy had gotten
> access to the vicinity where the engines were sitting on pallets awaiting the
> choppers, sneaked one of them out and replaced it with a standard Vair engine,
> figuring that the choppers wouldn't know the difference or care one way or another
> since they just counted pallets and cut up what they were sent. Supposedly it was a
> weekend evening foray, Monday the pallets were unloaded and cut up, so said the
> Camaro guy. He went on to describe the engine in some detail as I listened closely.
>
> He asked about when the engine had been available for production Corvairs (I guess
> he thought it was an option) and I told him that GM never did produce this engine
> outside of building a scant handful of prototypes and that supposedly they'd all been
> destroyed and where did this fellow get the engine? Who was he, is the car still
> around, what's the deal, what was his name... whereupon the guy got spooked, clammed
> up, drifted away from me and disappeared not to be seen again.
>
> I tried to chase him down but he was gone. I don't know whether or not the story
> was bogus or what...
>
> Later on, about a year or so, I talked briefly to a guy who said he'd seen a Corvair
> at an autocross (never did say where) many years earlier which had a "special
> optional 6 carb DOHC engine with three blowers on it" that "ran like stink" and was
> "...originally slated to be a part of GM's race program" or some such... most of
> which was complete embellishment BS. I pressed the fellow for details, being
> careful not to spook him the way the first guy was, and this 2nd guy talked about the
> engine, said he'd seen it up close, and was "sure" it had been a special performance
> option in Corvairs (which of course it was not). When I'd mentioned that the only
> OHC engine that GM ever built for a Corvair had a single cam in the heads, he
> insisted it was a DOHC because he'd "...seen the gilmer drive belts running the cams
> in the heads". I didn't pursue the matter. I did ask him about other details and
> he rattled on about the "triple blowers" atop the engine (the three squirrel-cage
> cooling fans the "Cammer" engines used?) which I also didn't try to correct. He
> then started in on how Nader had stopped Corvair production because they were fire
> hazards (I'm serious) and (of course) they rolled over in corners, followed by an
> unsolicited description of Corvair engineering, design, and history which was pretty
> much about 50% pure fabrication.
>
> The guy was basically a Barney Phife sort, but his description of the engine in the
> car was suspiciously accurate for the Astro "cammer" engine. I'm still not sure
> whether to believe his story or not, seeing as how so much of what he'd said about
> other things was so bogus. Add to this the fact that he looked a little like Burle
> Ives, only fatter... I found him just a little hard to take seriously.
>
>
> Then, a couple years later, I had a chance to talk to Dave Newell at a show and told
> him what I'd heard, and he related a similar story that he'd dug up, regarding the
> "purloined engine" which, according to his info, had by hook or by crook ended up
> hiding out in the engine bay of a Vair owned by the son of a GM white-collar sort...
> and had evidently been seen on the roads and in public a number of times. This
> sounds like the story I got from the guy whose cousin knew somebody... the Burle
> Ives guy offered up little or nothing as to details of the car, its owner, or where
> he'd seen it, only that he'd seen it at an autocross somewhere.
>
>
> Made me wonder... autocrosses as a rule haven't really been all that popular as
> events until the '70s or so, from what I've seen (nothing like their popularity
> today) and if this engine had indeed been swiped from GM, it must have been done in
> the mid'60s... making the car in question likely already accumulating close to ten
> years on the clock by the approximate time "Burle" said that he saw it. It's
> possible that "Burle" may have simply seen a Weber equipped Stinger and "took that
> ball and ran with it" when asked about it... or maybe he did see the same engine
> we're talking about.
>
>
> Now, the guy with the cousin said that he'd seen the engine back when Camaros were
> first coming out, and only noted the Corvair as an item of interest because it
> "looked like the new Camaro". The timing is about right... and the cousin-guy
> didn't know much of anything about Corvairs so I'd wager that he wouldn't have been
> privy to details of the Astro or the cammer engine in any event, and that what he was
> telling me was bona fide. Maybe.
>
> Did one of these engines escape the scrapper's torch? I'd like to think so.
> However, if it did, and if it somehow managed to indeed end up in the back of a Vair
> owned by some character with friends/family in high places, it hasn't resurfaced
> outside a few hearsay comments along the way.
>
>
> There's no proof... just stories from people who saw something odd in the back of a
> Corvair. However, there exists some parts and pieces (carbs, for instance) left
> over from the cammer's days, along with photos, technical specs and engineering
> details, and some dyno pull data... enough to suggest that it certainly had
> performance potential.
>
>
> In the meantime, all I have of substance is a really nice photo of the engine in a
> stand... same one that's available for viewing on Gary Aube' web site.
>
>
> tony..
>
>
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Mark Noakes
New Section: parts for sale (note: location = Knoxville, TN)
Personal, hobby, enthusiast vehicles, work/school, nature/travel/art photography located at:
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"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is usually a difference."
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