<VV> Jiffy Lube Scam - scams in general

[Frank DuVal]

Yes, my point was there are two sides as you say.

I give a lot of blame to the factory for such long plug change 
intervals. Waiting 80 to 100K miles to remove a steel spark plug from an 
aluminum head is gambling. Not every one will come out.

Your method is good, but when people leave the car for the professional 
to repair, they do not give him the chance to follow your method. The 
car is dropped off hot, not allowed an overnight cooling down period, 
and driven into the bay which adds more heat. The the customer  may even 
be waiting to drive it away, which places further  demands on the 
mechanic to hurry up and finish it now. And while the engine is sitting 
in the bay waiting for the penetrant to soak for a while, the mechanic 
is making no money as his bay is tied up. So at best it is a quick spray 
and no soak period. Amatueres at home have many time related bennefits 
that are not possible in professional shops. Unless of course customers 
are willing to pay $100 to $120 per hour actual working time the bay is 
tied up.

Breaking the insulators on 13/16" hex spark plugs has never been a 
problem for me, but I have broken a lot of the 5/8" hex plugs. I guess 
the smaller distance from the insulator to the socket wall gives less 
clearance when the socket whips from the force to break loose the spark 
plug. But the shell unscrews just fine with the insulator broken (as 
long as it isn't seized).

And the best for last. I use never seize on plugs in aluminum heads all 
the time. BUT, it was not recommended for this application for years. 
The wisdom was the insulating properties of the never seize would change 
the effective heat range of the spark plug. The path of the heat flowing 
from the plug tip to the metal head was now longer because of the 
insulating coating. I have never seen anti seize on factory installed 
plugs. You know, the ones they said not to remove for 100K miles!


Frank DuVal


mygroups wrote:

> Frank DuVal wrote:
>
>> Your friend is very unfair. Mechanics do not rust parts. Mechanics do 
>> not make steel plug shells seize in aluminum heads. They wish these 
>> things never happen. But owners expect miracles from mechanics. 
>> Miracles need to be paid for.
>>
>> How would you remove a seized spark plug?  Would you charge the same 
>> amount of time as a plug that comes out easily?
>> Fair is fair. Time is money. Your friend wanted something for 
>> nothing. Doesn't sound fair to me.
>
> Well I can see it both ways. On one hand the mechanic should be 
> competent enough to remove the plug without breaking anything (being 
> GM certified, doing plugs several times a week), and yes if the 
> problem was due to the friend's neglect then yeah, I can see how he 
> should bear the cost or some of the cost.
>
> We're in TN (not much salt) and the car was getting new plugs at 
> around 80K miles if I recall it correctly. He has owned the car since 
> new. I can't imagine there being a corrosion problem but hey, I could 
> be wrong.
>
> He went to them to get new wires (a necessary maintenance item he 
> thought), new plugs, etc. He asked them to make the repair and how 
> much would it cost. These guys quoted a price to do the job. He went 
> to them b/c they were the factory trained pros and he was not (don't 
> think he has ever done any of the repairs on that car) and they messed 
> up. So from his point of view they could not carefully accomplish what 
> they should have been able to, their carelessness or incompetence... 
> Two sides of the same story...
>
> Me? Never broke a spark plug on any car or engine ever - probably have 
> replaced spark plugs on several dozen engines over the years. Cold 
> engine, loosen/tighten/loosen/tighten/loosen/squirt of oil/repeat. 
> Apply anti-seize when new plugs are installed. So  far so good. (I did 
> manage to strip the threads out of a couple old VW heads once upon a 
> time... <griN!>)
>
> Chris
>
>