<VV> JScams in general - timing is everything

[Charles Lee at Proper Pro Per]

Speaking of "long life" plugs, I have a Ford Escort (ZX-2) and didn't change 
a single thing (except oil a couple of times, and tires, and brakes) in 
110,000 miles.

I used to gauge when I needed a tune-up by MPG dropping, but apparently with 
the computers, they adjust internally and give the same MPG until maybe they 
die ?

Anyway, I figured that 110,000 miles was enough to warrant a plug change, 
and sure enough, they were a bear to get out.  But they did eventually give 
up their homestead in my DOHC heads.

Put the new ones in and figured that she'd thank me for the thoughtful gift.

Nope.  She wouldn't start.  Hmmmm.  Defective plugs ?  Got a new set, no, 
that's not it.

Tried new wires.  Nope.

Did I break something ?  Knock a wire or sensor loose ?  Nope.

Drag it to a local shop who replaced the timing belt.  Belt was missing 
about 10 teeth, and decided the very moment I installed the plugs to spit 
them out !   Aaarrgghh !!!!.

Is this simply the way a Ford thanks you for your thoughtfulness ?

20 K since and no problems, so it was a small price to pay, I guess, but 
maybe I should have left the plugs for another time ?  I wonder ?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frank DuVal" <corvairduval at cox.net>
To: <mygroups at frontiernet.net>
Cc: "Charles Lee at Proper Pro Per" <chaz at ProperProPer.com>; "Virtual Vairs" 
<VirtualVairs at corvair.org>; <AeroNed at aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: <VV> Jiffy Lube Scam - scams in general


> Yes, my point was there are two sides as you say.
>
> I give a lot of blame to the factory for such long plug change intervals. 
> Waiting 80 to 100K miles to remove a steel spark plug from an aluminum 
> head is gambling. Not every one will come out.
>
> Your method is good, but when people leave the car for the professional to 
> repair, they do not give him the chance to follow your method. The car is 
> dropped off hot, not allowed an overnight cooling down period, and driven 
> into the bay which adds more heat. The the customer  may even be waiting 
> to drive it away, which places further  demands on the mechanic to hurry 
> up and finish it now. And while the engine is sitting in the bay waiting 
> for the penetrant to soak for a while, the mechanic is making no money as 
> his bay is tied up. So at best it is a quick spray and no soak period. 
> Amatueres at home have many time related bennefits that are not possible 
> in professional shops. Unless of course customers are willing to pay $100 
> to $120 per hour actual working time the bay is tied up.
>
> Breaking the insulators on 13/16" hex spark plugs has never been a problem 
> for me, but I have broken a lot of the 5/8" hex plugs. I guess the smaller 
> distance from the insulator to the socket wall gives less clearance when 
> the socket whips from the force to break loose the spark plug. But the 
> shell unscrews just fine with the insulator broken (as long as it isn't 
> seized).
>
> And the best for last. I use never seize on plugs in aluminum heads all 
> the time. BUT, it was not recommended for this application for years. The 
> wisdom was the insulating properties of the never seize would change the 
> effective heat range of the spark plug. The path of the heat flowing from 
> the plug tip to the metal head was now longer because of the insulating 
> coating. I have never seen anti seize on factory installed plugs. You 
> know, the ones they said not to remove for 100K miles!
>
>
> Frank DuVal
>
>
> mygroups wrote:
>
>> Frank DuVal wrote:
>>
>>> Your friend is very unfair. Mechanics do not rust parts. Mechanics do 
>>> not make steel plug shells seize in aluminum heads. They wish these 
>>> things never happen. But owners expect miracles from mechanics. Miracles 
>>> need to be paid for.
>>>
>>> How would you remove a seized spark plug?  Would you charge the same 
>>> amount of time as a plug that comes out easily?
>>> Fair is fair. Time is money. Your friend wanted something for nothing. 
>>> Doesn't sound fair to me.
>>
>> Well I can see it both ways. On one hand the mechanic should be competent 
>> enough to remove the plug without breaking anything (being GM certified, 
>> doing plugs several times a week), and yes if the problem was due to the 
>> friend's neglect then yeah, I can see how he should bear the cost or some 
>> of the cost.
>>
>> We're in TN (not much salt) and the car was getting new plugs at around 
>> 80K miles if I recall it correctly. He has owned the car since new. I 
>> can't imagine there being a corrosion problem but hey, I could be wrong.
>>
>> He went to them to get new wires (a necessary maintenance item he 
>> thought), new plugs, etc. He asked them to make the repair and how much 
>> would it cost. These guys quoted a price to do the job. He went to them 
>> b/c they were the factory trained pros and he was not (don't think he has 
>> ever done any of the repairs on that car) and they messed up. So from his 
>> point of view they could not carefully accomplish what they should have 
>> been able to, their carelessness or incompetence... Two sides of the same 
>> story...
>>
>> Me? Never broke a spark plug on any car or engine ever - probably have 
>> replaced spark plugs on several dozen engines over the years. Cold 
>> engine, loosen/tighten/loosen/tighten/loosen/squirt of oil/repeat. Apply 
>> anti-seize when new plugs are installed. So  far so good. (I did manage 
>> to strip the threads out of a couple old VW heads once upon a time... 
>> <griN!>)
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>