<VV> Toyota - no Vair, just a theory ?
Ray "Grymm" Rodriguez
vairguy at echoes.net
Sun Aug 15 21:48:21 EDT 2010
My understanding is that the car is completely fly-by-wire and you cannot
shut it off or take it out of gear on the fly. Cars just get ridiculouser
and ridiculouser <ggg>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Clark" <kcvair at hotmail.com>
To: <chaz at properproper.com>; <tony.underwood at cox.net>
Cc: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: <VV> Toyota - no Vair, just a theory ?
> I have a dumb question while we're on the Toyota subject. Why don't these
> people turn off the ignition when it starts to "run away" or throw it into
> neutral. Is the car so sophisticated this can't be done? Just wondering,
> no one has brought this up that I've heard. Ken
>> From: Chaz at ProperProper.com
>> To: tony.underwood at cox.net
>> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:54:21 -0700
>> CC: virtualvairs at corvair.org
>> Subject: Re: <VV> Toyota - no Vair, just a theory ?
>> A friend's 1995 Saturn (OBD-I) had a transmission problem, randomly
>> from one gear to another with no provocation, when she was driving and I
>> figured she must be doing something weird, but it sometimes happened when
>> would drive (OK, that doesn't completely eliminate the 'weird' aspect I
>> Anyway, after a few days of this weird behavior, her car battery started
>> Turns out the alternator was not charging, so now she has two problems,
>> right ?
>> Wrong, although AAMCO wanted to charge $1200 to "fix" the transmission,
>> before we decided to do the alternator first, for about $100, which was
>> charging (the battery was fine).
>> Guess what ? The new alternator fixed the transmission !
>> I'm sure AAMCO would gladly have taken $1200 to repair a perfectly good
>> transmission only to be forced to admit that it didn't fix the problem,
>> would not likely offer a refund for unnecessary repairs, but we'll never
>> know for sure, will we ?
>> My theory is that the transmission problem, possibly like the Toyota
>> (?), was caused by low voltage to the electrical system, since the
>> alternator fixed the transmission problem ?!?!?!
>> It's been a few months now and the transmission is still fine ...
>> Has anyone seen any reference to the correlation between alternator /
>> charging system problems and unintended acceleration in Toyotas or other
>> cars ?
>> Just curious if they thought of that ?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tony Underwood" <tony.underwood at cox.net>
>> To: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 9:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: <VV> Toyota - no Vair
>> > At 04:21 PM 8/11/2010, kenpepke at juno.com wrote:
>> >>Uh, yes ... there are a lot of dumb drivers. However, the article
>> >>indicates of the reported incidences more than half might be driver
>> >>error. That would lead one to realize something less than half were
>> >>NOT driver error. That is a lot of vehicle errors, even for
>> >>Toyota. Years of junkyard experience tells me that Toyota quality
>> >>has been add by their advertising department from the beginning.
>> >>Ken P
>> >> >From the attached article:
>> >>And in more than half of the crashes blamed on sudden acceleration
>> >>analyzed by the government, data from the vehicles�
>> >>�black boxes� show the driver was not stepping on the
>> >>brake at the time of the accident�indicating that driver
>> >>error may have been at fault.
>> > I keep recalling the Toyota pilot whose car ran away, cop car got
>> > after him, followed, figured what was happening and managed to get
>> > ahead of the Toyota and use the cruiser's brakes to stop both
>> > vehicles, Toyota driver got out and refused to get back in, saying he
>> > was never driving a Toyota again.
>> > Went to court, Toyota said their black box in the car indicated the
>> > driver was stepping on the accelerator instead of the brake...
>> > Cop countered with testimony that he watched the brake lights of the
>> > car flashing continuously in a manner that suggested the driver was
>> > pumping the brake pedal. It also brought back some reflections of
>> > a previous crash of a Lexus that killed a police officer and several
>> > of his family members after his car ran away and crashed. This was
>> > the cop who phoned 911 telling them to try and clear a path ahead of
>> > him, in the headlong dash through traffic for over a mile before his
>> > car left the road at appx 100 mph and crashed.
>> > Toyota suggested that the cop's crash was also caused by the officer
>> > accidentally stepping on the accelerator instead of the brake... for
>> > over a mile. That driver was, in several hundred postings in
>> > various automotive forums among bloggers, nominated for a "Darwin
>> > Award" following Toyota's announcement regarding "accidentally"
>> > pressing the gas instead of brake. Yeahright. This was a police
>> > officer who I suspect knew the difference between a gas pedal and a
>> > brake pedal.
>> > Maybe there are NOT so many dumb drivers out there. Maybe Toyota
>> > techs were lying their asses off or the "black box" was reading the
>> > wrong data or misinterpreting it. Meanwhile, Toyota countered each
>> > incident with an excuse from floor mats to gas pedals to driver
>> > error... yet nobody else was having these issues except
>> > Toyota. Independent software experts were sending in reports of
>> > defects they had found in the Toyota electronics/software... and of
>> > course Toyota insisted * in the news reports * that there was nothing
>> > wrong with their electronics or software, saying the pedal was at
>> > fault although some Toyotas kept having issues after pedal
>> > replacement... and cars that came in for the gas pedal "fix" after
>> > those initial reports were quietly getting new electronics and
>> > software at the dealerships while they were repairing the pedal
>> > issue...
>> > The pedal is a contract part, not a Toyota part... and several other
>> > car makers use the same pedal assembly. None of them had any
>> > runaway issues.
>> > Fnck Toyota and the whore they rode in on. They brought this onto
>> > themselves in their mad rush to be #1, and the recalls continue to
>> > this day. Like I'd said several times along the way, for some years
>> > now, if I won a free Toyota in a contest I'd sell it and buy a
>> > Ford. Toyota's underhanded business practices for the last 20
>> > years are coming back to haunt them and it's about time.
>> > Karma's a bitch.
>> > I'll keep my 'Vairs thanks. I TRUST them. I'd been watching
>> > Toyota for some years now, after reading up ( and viewing documentary
>> > research films and interviews) on some underhanded stunts they did
>> > that caused a lot of trouble for domestic industry... up to and
>> > including the sneaky Prius subsidies that a lot of people never found
>> > out about to this day, although they sure as HELL should know about it.
>> > Toyota's got a lot of damage control to do, and I don't feel sorry
>> > for them one damned bit.
>> > tony..
>> > PS: a driver who had been convicted of reckless driving and
>> > manslaughter was recently released from prison where he'd been
>> > serving time for striking and killing pedestrians when his Toyota had
>> > run away and could not be stopped, yet the court didn't believe his
>> > story when he testified in court that the throttle had stuck wide
>> > open and the brakes wouldn't work... before all the rest of the
>> > runaway Toyota reports had begun surfacing in media.
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