<VV> ABS on a Corvair/What is safe anyway?/Stopping Faster or Slower With ABS

[hallgrenn at aol.com]

Joel,

I do appreciate the controllability with ABS expecially for my wife and kids.  But the tests I have seen demonstrated that stopping distances varied based on the surfaces (dry pavement, wet pavement, gravel, sand etc.) when ABS on and off tests were done.  Sometimes ABS stopped the car faster (like on dry and wet pavement) and sometimes not (gravel and loose sand). An experienced driver pumping the pedal did better on the loose materials.  Admittedly the tests were about twenty years ago, but I don't believe ABS systems have changed much since then.  Have they?  I wouldn't mind having switchable ABS on my LMs.  Might even look into it when I retire.

Bob

ps  The traction control on our 2010 Malibu does a very good job compared to our earlier FWD cars without it.

 According to tests cars stop faster without antilock.  Antilock just 
makes them more controllable when stopping hard.

Joel McGregor





-----Original Message-----
From: Joel McGregor <joel at joelsplace.com>
To: virtualvairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
Sent: Wed, Mar 27, 2013 12:57 pm
Subject: Re: <VV> What is safe anyway?


My wife is a smart one.  She understands that she can't drive.  I'll admit that 
the CTS stability control hasn't put me in the ditch but I can see where it 
would be a problem in an emergency situation for me since it does things that 
are unexpected and unwanted.  It's safer for her because it's better than she is 
at knowing what to do in a bad situation.  I would rather take my chances on me 
knowing what to do.  Dangerous probably isn't fair to the CTS.  "Less safe" 
would be more accurate.

Do you think you could run an autocross faster in a CTS with the stability 
control on or off?  I believe you would be off the course or hitting things if 
you tried to run full speed with the stability control on.  I have heard that 
the GTR's system is good enough that even the best drivers can go faster with it 
on.

Rear wheel antilock seems to be a good thing on vehicles with a lot of weight 
transfer.  According to tests cars stop faster without antilock.  Antilock just 
makes them more controllable when stopping hard.

Joel McGregor
________________________________
From: Sethracer at aol.com [Sethracer at aol.com]
Subject: Re: <VV> What is safe anyway?

I like "driver aids" that can be removed when not wanted. When I autocross my C6 
Corvette, I turn off Stability Control and Traction control. It's drive time! 
The only time I have EVER turned them off on the street- actually only the 
traction control off - was to do a burnout. The ABS cannot be turned off at all, 
even in competition (unless you start pulling fuses, etc.) I actually used the 
ABS last night, (my bad!) I was following a little too close and, 10 cars ahead, 
someone had to stop to make a decision (grrrgh). I never got closer than 6 feet 
to that bumper ahead, but that really seems close when the brake pedal is on the 
floor and the tires are chirping their way to a stop. I am glad that nobody was 
behind me - I would have been a hockey puck.

You mentioned the target customer for the "assisted" car. I would not call the 
CTS a "boring, dangerous" car. There are plenty of those, but not too many new 
ones. (Many may be boring, but hardly any are dangerous). I understand your 
comment on your wife's capabilities. (Though I am not so sure she would!) But 
she does, indeed, represent a much greater percentage of the driving public than 
we do! And I have to admit, that may be a good thing.<grin> Now, you asked about 
"safe" drivers and what that represents. There are boring, safe drivers, as well 
as boring, safe cars. The problem, I guess becomes acute when unsafe drivers get 
into unsafe cars. "Accident looking for a place to happen". I feel that many of 
the "driver assistance" features protect, not only the driver and passengers, 
but the other cars/drivers around that car - one of whom might be me! The 
cautionary lesson here is to not let those "driver aids" take the place of 
alert, active driving. Many people are lazy eno
 ugh to let that happen. Pardon me while I remote start my car.

- Seth
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