<VV> Wire wheels filters and clocks
Eric S. Eberhard
eric at vicsmba.com
Tue Oct 13 18:50:52 EDT 2015
Actually the 61 clock has a totally different base -- part of the
clock. The later ones have the base as a separate piece. I always add
a ground wire any way ... makes the clock work :-)
The point on the filters was not a HUGE discussion of the many filters
-- I said I did not have them all -- and it is not just color. Blue/red
letter is not the same as blue/white letters as the red letters appeared
in 62, the white letters later. I don't think 62 ever had white filters
unless you replaced them in 1965 :-) Although I have also read that it
is "well established" that cars left the factory with black filters and
replacements were blue (with red letters in 62) -- I have 20-30 black
filters NOS in the box that say pretty loudly that not all replacement
filters were blue/red. The black ones are also different -- the gasket
is not integrated. I use them because I like them. And they are
legit. Blue/red is my second favorite and every 3-4 changes I switch it
up (bold aren't I :-) )
My point is only that dealer options are legit in MY (meaning nothing)
view if the item is older than the car. Nothing wrong with a 61 clock
on a 62 car, a 63 clock on a 64 car -- the dealer grabs what is on the
shelf and puts it on (well, they did then). Certainly they did not say
"oh my gosh, 40 years from now in a concours some judge is going to
claim the clock is the wrong year and deduct points). A black or a
blue/red filter is fine on a 62. A white/red letters is not. If one is
being fussy.
Yes -- very pricey re-chroming can preserve the arrows -- and it is
rarely done. If you have knock-offs with no arrows or almost impossible
to see arrows, they are not correct. This detail is NEVER noticed by
concours judges. I have seen winning cars with mismatched arrows and/or
missing arrows, and stainless spokes, and so forth, because of the "wow"
factor of the wheels. Which is a shame. If they are fussy about the
darn base on the clock, they should be fussy about the arrows on the
knock offs. IMO which means nothing.
Eric
On 10/13/2015 2:25 PM, Dusty Steinberg wrote:
>
> The 1962 / 1963 center inserts are correct for the early 1964 model
> year cars, but you will need to check with the "stock group" to know
> what the cut off date is.
>
> 1962 & 1963 clocks are the same, and the 1964 clock is different. It
> has a ground wire in addition to the power and illumination wires.
> Just another one of these meaningless changes that Chevrolet made with
> the model year change over.
>
> As for the filters being black, blue, or for that matter, white, it
> has been well established that all the engines left with black
> filters, and the correct replacement filter, if you want to say that
> there was a filter and oil change at the dealership in 1962. you are
> correct that it would have been a blue filter. Time has proven that
> there were more than a few incarnations of the black filter that was
> original equipment on the engine.
>
> To follow up on the re chroming of the knock offs, there are chrome
> shops out there that can properly restore a damaged knock off to
> perfection, however, they don't come cheap.
>
> Paul in CT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Eric S. Eberhard"
> Sent: Oct 13, 2015 4:59 PM
> To: Dusty Steinberg
> Cc: virtualvairs at corvair.org, judynrandy at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Wire wheels -- hammers and so forth
>
> I stand corrected on the year for the center change :-) And those
> are the combos I have seen on arrows (on each on/off, both off,
> both on, and nothing). My opinion is the "nothings" are
> re-chromes where that level of detail could not be kept. I took
> some to have chromed and the shops all said they could not
> guarantee the detail would remain. I don't think they made any
> with no arrows. Mine are all two "off" arrows. And, I noticed
> while looking, I still have my old stainless caps (not the repros)
> in the wheels. Little color-challenged but now I think I'll leave
> them.
>
> I put this in here because a LOT of concourse cars have K-H
> wheels. Almost all are fakes. They have been "rebuilt" with
> stainless spokes and new rims (I think that means only the center
> portion is original -- 90% is reproduction some with the wrong
> materials). The centers don't match and often many will have no
> arrows (re-chromed). So they cobbled up some crappy wheels,
> chromed a lot of stuff, and then call it original and get big
> points in the shows. And spent big dollars. It was nice when you
> could get a nice full set with hammer and mount for spare and all
> for $800.00 If that is your thing ... these rebuilt sets are 5k
> and more. I made more money on those wheels than I ever did on
> cars as I hoarded a lot when they were cheap. The last two sets
> they asked me to ship the spinners only (Corvette people) so I
> have spare wheels if anyone needs one. They all need some work
> (rechrome or the full stainless route).
>
> My wheels -- all original. No stainless spokes. Small marks on
> original rims. Original centers (I am getting senile, I was
> pretty sure I changed those). I like it that way -- all original
> and matching.
>
> Another thing that drives me insane on these concours cars and
> judges is the extras besides wheels. A 64 car could easily have
> 63 centers because they were a dealer installed, moved around from
> car-to-car, etc. option. Dealers would take them off cars people
> wanted (but would not pay for the wires), put them on some other
> car, etc. In 62 the oil filter should be blue with red letters.
> Older were black with white. Later were blue with white and white
> with red. And I probably missed a few. Once again, the 62 car
> could easily come with a black/white filter -- but NEVER with a
> white/red filter. The clocks changed after 61. It is a dealer
> installed option. If you bought a 62 he went to his shelf and
> grabbed a clock -- gasp, maybe a 61 clock -- and put it on. It is
> just fine for a 62 to have a 61 clock, it is NOT fine for a 61 to
> have a 62 clock. I drive my car, so I don't care that much, but
> every once in a while someone has to tell me that my 62 has a 61
> clock (actually I replaced it finally with a 62 clock -- less
> annoying), or whatever,
>
> Dealers grabbed what they had when you asked for dealer options.
> The years don't have to be identical, just logical (e.g. the part
> must have existed at the time the car was delivered).
>
> So I think black filters and 61 clocks are fine on a 62. In fact,
> my favorite filter is indeed the black one. It is a minority
> opinion, and generally not shared by the concours crowd. I am in
> the weird crowd -- I stay original but for a few safety items
> (like radials) ... and drive them. All my cars would score in the
> 90s but would never win a concours on a national level unless they
> add a daily driver class.
>
> Eric
>
>
> On 10/13/2015 1:12 PM, Dusty Steinberg wrote:
>>
>> To add to what Eric has written, I have seen the knock offs with
>> arrows stamped showing both on and off, both off, both on, and
>> on one knock off, it was marked off and on, and the arrows were
>> pointing toward the same direction. Back in the early 1980's, I
>> spoke to the engineer at Kelsey Hayes that was in charge of the
>> project for the Chevrolet wheels. I learned a lot of information
>> from him, such as the earlier knock offs, had the ears closer to
>> the spokes, and that they changed them to be further out, so the
>> spokes wouldn't get hit. There was also a label in the later
>> production wheels that said to tap the spokes with a coin to see
>> if they had come loose. The spoke threads were set in an epoxy
>> that kept them from coming loose, but occasionally, a spoke would
>> come lose even though the epoxy was applied. That was the reason
>> for the label on the inside of the wheel. I have a complete set
>> of the engineering drawings that he sent to me.
>>
>> I would also like to point out that the stainless steel center
>> cap was used in 1962 & 1963, and changed to the aluminum black
>> electroplated logo for the 1964 model.
>>
>> Paul in CT
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Eric S. Eberhard"
>> Sent: Oct 13, 2015 3:56 PM
>> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org, noahsarkinc at earthlink.net,
>> judynrandy at comcast.net
>> Subject: Wire wheels -- hammers and so forth
>>
>> I have had a LOT of wire wheels -- 20 sets at one time, 4
>> cars with them at a time for a while. I still run one car
>> with K-H wheels and have some spares.
>>
>> The very best way to get the spinners on and off is indeed
>> the plastic covered lead pellet type hammer. Probably what
>> the snap on is. Mine came from NAPA. I also am protective
>> but I don't use wood, I use cardboard. I take a thick box
>> folded in half and place it where I am going to strike. This
>> works well. And re-chroming is not only costly, but actually
>> ruins them (you can usually tell). There is a lot of fine
>> print on the spinners about direction and so forth.
>>
>> Trivia for the day -- the arrows are NOT all the same -- not
>> in location or design. A true original set will have all
>> matching arrows. Cobbled together sets -- especially by
>> people that were hoarders like me and did not know better (I
>> did) --- will end up with a mixed set. I don't know why this
>> is -- 62 Corvette used the same spinner and it is tempting to
>> say one was Corvette and one was Corvair. Except I have seen
>> four distinct designs (including location -- really 2 designs
>> and 2 locations).
>>
>> They should be put on not terribly tight. They are
>> directional -- right sides need to be on the right, left on
>> left. This makes the normal activity of driving tend to
>> tighten rather than loosen. So you don't have to make them
>> super tight -- just tight enough to hold them and not
>> wobble. Then an extra whack or two. Then stop. They
>> generally come off fairly easily if done this way.
>>
>> By general rule on all things old cars -- especially Corvairs
>> -- don't over tighten. And the raw lead hammer will deform
>> and then damage the chrome. I hide the NAPA hammer, and
>> leave the pristine lead one out for show.
>>
>> Trivia two for the day -- the hammers are almost never
>> correct. ALL the K-H wheels are 62 wheels that carried over
>> as they did not sell. All the hammers, then, are 62
>> hammers. Like Corvettes (sadly my spinners were sold to
>> Corvette people as they are the same and they pay 10 time as
>> much for a set of spinners as I could get for an entire set
>> of wheels) the hammer changed in 63. All replacements (NOS
>> or otherwise were 63+ style). You can fake it easily. I
>> made several. You have to shorten the handle, use a punch
>> and put some dimples in two places, and add weld marks which
>> are not present on later hammers all around the head of the
>> hammer. Many people just figure, black lead hammer, all
>> good. And never know they have the wrong one. Finding a
>> correct one is almost impossible. Buying replicas gets the
>> wrong (63 style) one. The only way I know of is to get a 63
>> (replica or otherwise) and modify it. Or get lucky and get a
>> real one. I kept a real one (the lead is messy) and modified
>> a replica so they are identical (lead pretty). And use the
>> shot filled hammer for real life.
>>
>> Oh -- 62 centers are different too, the Clarks replicas are
>> not bad. Different metal, but largely undetectable. I run
>> them on the car and keep the originals in a drawer in case I
>> ever get the energy to restore them.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/13/2015 9:00 AM, virtualvairs-request at corvair.org wrote:
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>>> http://www.vv.corvair.org/archive.htm
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Centering the Pressure Plate (Harry Yarnell (Verizon))
>>> 2. Re: Distributor swap? (Bryan Blackwell)
>>> 3. Re: Distributor swap? (Sethracer at aol.com)
>>> 4. clutch disc thickness revisited (judynrandy at comcast.net)
>>> 5. wire wheel question (judynrandy at comcast.net)
>>> 6. Re: wire wheel question (Dusty Steinberg)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 17:38:06 -0400
>>> From: "Harry Yarnell \(Verizon\)"<harryyarnell at verizon.net>
>>> To:<BobHelt at aol.com>, "'corvair'"<virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>>> Subject: Re:<VV> Centering the Pressure Plate
>>> Message-ID:<002d01d10536$4b1d7690$e15863b0$@net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>>
>>> Bob, this is great in theory, but I've never had the flywheel/pressure plate
>>> balanced.
>>>
>>> I've done countless clutch jobs and never had a balance issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From:BobHelt at aol.com [mailto:BobHelt at aol.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 4:35 PM
>>> To:harryyarnell at verizon.net;egszuch at gmail.com;virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>> Subject: Re:<VV> Centering the Pressure Plate
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hold on there for just a second.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is highly recommended that you have the flywheel and pressure plate
>>> professionally balanced together. When this is done the balancer guy will
>>> identify how the two parts should be aligned with some punch marks or other
>>> means of showing alignment. So when you mount the PP onto the FW you need to
>>> align these markings to retain proper balance.
>>>
>>> Bob Helt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 10/12/2015 12:37:27 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,
>>> virtualvairs at corvair.org writes:
>>>
>>> As others have said, just bolt it up; it's a non-issue. The disc is what you
>>> should align. As someone else mentioned, use the input shaft.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 17:58:13 -0400
>>> From: Bryan Blackwell<bryan at skiblack.com>
>>> To: Grant Young<gyoungwolf at earthlink.net>
>>> Cc:"virtualvairs at corvair.org" <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>>> Subject: Re:<VV> Distributor swap?
>>> Message-ID:<9CADE88D-6D51-435E-87DA-9E94A2952B5D at skiblack.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>
>>> Hi Grant,
>>>
>>> I've run a couple different distributors in engines over the years and found that for overall use on a relatively stock engine the specified distributor does work best. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but at this point I would to start with the correct one and go from there.
>>>
>>> --Bryan
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:15 PM, Grant Young via VirtualVairs<virtualvairs at corvair.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> First, thanks for all the information on the AC set up on the car I have in the shop. As I continue to work through things, I have discovered it has a 1964 95 HP motor, but with the 110 HP distributor that was in its original 1965 110. Was this an acceptable parts swap? It redlines okay, but falls on its face on the road at higher rpms.
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:17:48 -0400
>>> From:Sethracer at aol.com
>>> To:bryan at skiblack.com,gyoungwolf at earthlink.net
>>> Cc:virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>> Subject: Re:<VV> Distributor swap?
>>> Message-ID:<385a24.8e06e61.434d999b at aol.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>>
>>> Grant - The issue you have is that you have the relative low compression
>>> and mild cam timing of the 95HP motor. No matter what timing you use, it will
>>> never be a high RPM motor. But, hey, you run regular gas! - Seth
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 10/12/2015 2:58:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>>> virtualvairs at corvair.org writes:
>>>
>>> Hi Grant,
>>>
>>> I've run a couple different distributors in engines over the years and
>>> found that for overall use on a relatively stock engine the specified
>>> distributor does work best. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but at this point
>>> I would to start with the correct one and go from there.
>>>
>>> --Bryan
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:15 PM, Grant Young via VirtualVairs
>>>>
>>> <virtualvairs at corvair.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> First, thanks for all the information on the AC set up on the car I have
>>>>
>>> in the shop. As I continue to work through things, I have discovered it
>>> has a 1964 95 HP motor, but with the 110 HP distributor that was in its
>>> original 1965 110. Was this an acceptable parts swap? It redlines okay, but
>>> falls on its face on the road at higher rpms.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are
>>> the property
>>> of the writer, please attribute properly. For help,
>>> mailto:vv-help at corvair.org
>>> This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America,
>>> http://www.corvair.org/
>>> Post messages to:VirtualVairs at corvair.org
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>>> Archives:http://www.vv.corvair.org/archive.htm
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 03:18:31 +0000 (UTC)
>>> From:judynrandy at comcast.net
>>> To:virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>> Subject:<VV> clutch disc thickness revisited
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <361921451.3252418.1444706311293.JavaMail.zimbra at comcast.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>
>>> I just wanted to say thanx to those who responded to my clutch questions.? The owner of said car in question relented and decided to spring for a whole clutch job.? Everything will be replaced.? Thanx again.
>>> ?
>>> Randy (Cap'n) Hook
>>> Hopewell,? PA
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 03:23:12 +0000 (UTC)
>>> From:judynrandy at comcast.net
>>> To:virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>> Subject:<VV> wire wheel question
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <164621664.3254251.1444706592528.JavaMail.zimbra at comcast.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>
>>> The aforementioned car needing the clutch job also came with wire wheels.? The real deal.? And boy are they gorgeous!!!? Anyway, this is my first experience with wire wheels.? I figured out how to get them off ok, but when I put them back on, how do I know how tight to tighten the "knock offs"?
>>> Randy (Cap'n) Hook
>>> Hopewell, PA
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:14:04 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>>> From: Dusty Steinberg<noahsarkinc at earthlink.net>
>>> To:judynrandy at comcast.net,virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>> Subject: Re:<VV> wire wheel question
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <22886202.1444742044447.JavaMail.root at elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> According to the instructions that came with the car, to properly remove and install them, you should use a lead hammer. My experience is that even the lead hammer can damage the chrome on the wing of the knock off, so what I use is a piece of 2"x4" piece of wood that I can comfortably hold with my left hand, and then use a short handle 5# sledge hammer in my right hand, and hit the wood after it is place securely on the wing that I want to move. This prevents any damage to the chrome, and as long as you don't swing the hammer wildly, you don't hit the spokes either. This is how I have done this since getting my first Corvair with the Kelsey Hayes wire wheels. I have seen some people use a brass hammer, and this will also damage the chrome. I have never tried using a Snap On Dead Blow Hammer, but I believe that this would work without damaging the chrome on the wings, however, I don't want to gamble trying it with one of my pristine knock offs. It cost too much to hav
>>>
>>> e
>>> them replated.
>>> Paul in CT
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>> From: Randy Hook via VirtualVairs<virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>>>> Sent: Oct 12, 2015 11:23 PM
>>>> To:virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>>> Subject:<VV> wire wheel question
>>>>
>>>> The aforementioned car needing the clutch job also came with wire wheels.? The real deal.? And boy are they gorgeous!!!? Anyway, this is my first experience with wire wheels.? I figured out how to get them off ok, but when I put them back on, how do I know how tight to tighten the "knock offs"?
>>>> Randy (Cap'n) Hook
>>>> Hopewell, PA
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are the property
>>>> of the writer, please attribute properly. For help,mailto:vv-help at corvair.org
>>>> This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America,http://www.corvair.org/
>>>> Post messages to:VirtualVairs at corvair.org
>>>> Change your options:http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/options/virtualvairs
>>>> Archives:http://www.vv.corvair.org/archive.htm
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> End of VirtualVairs Digest, Vol 129, Issue 21
>>> *********************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Eric S. Eberhard
>> VICS
>> 2933 W Middle Verde Road
>> Camp Verde, AZ 86322
>>
>> 928-567-3727 work 928-301-7537 cell
>>
>> http://www.vicsmba.com/index.html (our work)
>> http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html (fun pictures)
>>
>
> --
> Eric S. Eberhard
> VICS
> 2933 W Middle Verde Road
> Camp Verde, AZ 86322
>
> 928-567-3727 work 928-301-7537 cell
>
> http://www.vicsmba.com/index.html (our work)
> http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html (fun pictures)
>
--
Eric S. Eberhard
VICS
2933 W Middle Verde Road
Camp Verde, AZ 86322
928-567-3727 work 928-301-7537 cell
http://www.vicsmba.com/index.html (our work)
http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html (fun pictures)
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