<VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!

Fri Mar 3 06:21:29 EST 2017

Thanks for responding Dave, 

I have about half of a very long email worked up regarding deviations
between the Model Production numbers and VIN production totals for the
entire Corvair line.

I started with the biggest variance, the 63 FC production to get the ball
rolling.

I have broken down each year and total production for both cars & trucks, US
and Canadian, and bounced them against VIN production to produce a variance
list.  I see the biggest issues directly coorelating (and matching) with the
various reported EXPORT vehicles over the years. 

The 2 biggest questions are....

How did the Model Production List get created?  Was it actual figures
reported or was it calcualted based on percentage figures from GM sources?

How did the Exported cars list get created for 60-64 era vs 65-67 era..(you
will see why I separate them in in my next email.

I would love to assist on working with you and Mike in resolving both the FC
Model production as well as the car totals for US production.

Rick Loving

(I am adding David Trull aka Bigwave to this email list)...

-----Original Message-----
From: David Newell [mailto:chevrobilia at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 4:57 AM
To: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
Cc: ral1963 at comcast.net; spilatrs at marietta.edu; Matt Nall; Mike McGowan; Rod
Murray; Ed Bittman; Harry Jensen; Kent Sullivan; Mark Corbin; Bill Hubbell;
Bob Helt; Bob Marlow
Subject: RE: <VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!

Rick, Matt, Rod and all...
Thanks for bringing up this important and long overdue issue. Your sharp
eye, Rick, couldn't have had better timing for taming those pesky FC
numbers. Mike McGowan and I've been planning an article for the Communique
this year on just this subject. It's one of four pieces I'm determined to do
before year's end or whenever Mike and Harry retire. Which is when I'll bow
out, thank you.

The FC production numbers by year and model -- as published in The Corvair
Decade and everywhere else Corvair FC numbers have ever been printed -- go
back to the early 1970s when all we had were car numbers. The FC figures
were a huge gap in our knowledge. I'm the guilty party who requested them,
plus the 62-63 Spyder RPO and 65-66 L87 turbo numbers, from Chevrolet.
They've been reprinted a jillion times at least. We had no reason to
question 'em, nor did anyone else.

In 1988 I came across the month-ending serial numbers for each plant. They
were a revelation, but like you I caught the 1963 FC inconsistencies and
wrote a memo to file that flagged them as a possible "breakthrough" in
numbers research. But at the time there was nothing else to check the plant
totals against, much less cross check the original numbers supplied by
Chevy.

Eventually holy grail docs appeared, confirming that the Flint and St Louis
totals were correct and just how faulty some of the original Chevy-supplied
figures were. In my article I'll show how that was done and how the process
also corrected the '63 model production numbers.

Your observation about the 13 FC anomaly in '61 is well taken and right on.
But there's major goof besides that one. It'll surprise and probably dismay
you, in that it's taken me so damn long to write about it. But maybe you'll
all forgive this numbers weary old fart with failing eyesight and way too
much historical trivia to ever have time to explore.

So....help has arrived. I'll fix it. But everyone has to get on board and
spread the new figures. Rick, your questioning the old figures now should
help validate the new numbers. I've been worried that some folks might not
easily embrace the corrections. We'll need to spread the word so that
whenever anyone edits or reprints what they've previously published (with
the old numbers) they can fix it. It should be "official" CORSA policy,
pointed out on the web site, but I know that's expecting too much.

Here's to all of us who care about numerical accuracy. And truth in general.
Somebody's gotta get it right, 'eh? :-)

Dave Newell
History Editor, CORSA Communique    

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 3/2/17, Rod Murray <rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com> wrote:

 Subject: RE: <VV> Missing FC's     HELP!!!!!
 To: "ral1963 at comcast.net" <ral1963 at comcast.net>, "spilatrs at marietta.edu"
<spilatrs at marietta.edu>, "chevrobilia at yahoo.com" <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
 Cc: "Matt Nall" <patiomatt at aol.com>
 Date: Thursday, March 2, 2017, 9:41 AM

 Hey rick,

 Seems like Steve Spilatro and dave newell might be good  sources to check
in with.

 Good luck w/ the project...count me amongst those that  appreciate thorough
fact-finding and numerical accuracy.

 - rod

 Rod Murray
 Senior Director, Production and Game Presentation  Pittsburgh Penguins
rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com
 Office: 412-255-1906 | Fax: 412-255-1980 | Mobile:
 412-719-3449
 PPG Paints Arena | 1001 Fifth Avenue | Pittsburgh, PA |
 15219
 -----Original Message-----
 From: VirtualVairs [mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org]
 On Behalf Of Matt Nall via VirtualVairs
 Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 11:07 AM
 To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
 Subject: <VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!

 Rick Loving / Vair Historian  needs some help!!

 His email is

 Does anyone know the "oldest" published model numbers for  Corvair Forward
Control trucks (and where those totals came  from?)?

 When you look at all the historical numbers for 1963 FC  production there
is a 3,141 variance between what has been  reported historically...and I
want to fix it!!!

 ...according to the Corvair Decade (not sure where Tony  pulled them) and
repeated across dozens of publications and  websites...here is what FC Model
breakdown for 1963 has been  reported.

 1963 Corvan = 11,161 Units
 1963 Greenbriar = 13,761 Units
 1963 Rampside = 2,046 Units
 ___________________________
 1963 Total Model Breakdown = 26,968

 Here is the issue,
 According to GM documents, 1963 plant production at St Louis  and Flint for
Corvair FC's was as follows..

 1963 Flint = 15,211 (Last VIN built)
 1963 St Louis = 14,898 (Last VIN built)
_______________________________________
 1963 Total VIN Production = 30,109

 So we have 3,141 Corvair FC's NOT accounted for in the Model  breakdown?

 Since FC's don't really have a "Body number" listed on the  Fisher Tag like
cars...can anyone think of a way to  accurately "correct" the production by
model information?

 Was the original "model" numbers derived from a % built?

 Summary...

 1961 Model breakdown matches VIN totals exactly at 47,557
 1962 Model breakdown matches VIN totals close at 47,557  model vs 14,570 by
VIN (13 more reported by Model)

 1962 Model breakdown is off by 3,141...and needs to be  revised...

 1964 Model breakdown matches VIN totals exactly at 15,199
 1965 Model breakdown matches VIN totals exactly at 1,528

 Thoughts?

 ral1963 at comcast.net

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