<VV> Vehicle quality real and perceived

Mon Nov 10 07:04:07 EST 2008

Perception of quality is a most interesting phenomenon.  I know
there are those on this site that do not believe American car
companies do anything more than use what is available.  They
are wrong.  As far back as the 'teens and 20s GM tested cars
for handling and accident safety.  Rollover safety was checked 
by hand pushing a car over a cliff and watching it roll.  By the
time the Corvair was introduced the tests had become quite
sophisticated.  They are even more so today.

There may not be any Corvair owners that have not been told
by someone looking at their car that Mr. Nader exposed the 
Corvair as a dangerous vehicle.  Why do they believe that? 
These self styled experts have no idea that the car was 
exonerated of all charges.  Why not?

Actually there is no mystery.  They 'learned' from advertising
and the media. 

Point one:  My friend of almost 50 years and former race car
partner owns a junkyard.  He deals in old, used up junk cars
rather than late model wrecks.  The State of Michigan requires
ALL junk dealers to record and report every car scrapped.
They require a mileage statement for every car.  After scrapping
thousands and thousands and thousands of cars a pattern
becomes evident; Japanese cars, regardless of the make or
model become 'used up' almost three years and 30,000 miles
sooner than their American counterparts.  The average Ford,
Chevy [including Corvair] or Chrysler, most of which receive
little or no preventative maintenance will outlast any Japanese
car ... regardless of cost.  The exceptions are few.  Lincolns
and Buicks tend to outlive their usefulness to their owners.
The first to die were the Mazda rotarys ... at less than 15,000
miles.  They would still run but had to be pushed around 
and around the block till they warmed up enough to run on
their own.

Point two:  I worked for more than 42 years for Fisher Body /
GM in the engineering department.  My work and my interest
frequently took me to the area which tests vehicles ... for a 
myriad of points.   GM employs accurate and sophisticated 
instruments to check body fit.  They test all GM products and
compare them with ALL domestic and foreign built cars.  They 
also have the ability to check finish.  YEAR for YEAR the 'fabled'
Japanese fit and finish ALWAYS falls short of the average Chevy,  
Ford or Chrysler.  Top fit and finish the world has to offer comes
from BMW ... head and shoulders above the rest.

Simple test:  Place your index finger so it bridges the gap 
between adjacent panels [hood & fender / door & quarter etc]
and draw it along the gap.  Your finger will 'see' what is a good
fit and what is not :-)
Ken P

> 9 Nov 2008 14:19:26 EST RoboMan91324 at aol.com writes:
>  
> Bruce,
>  
> Excellent point.  Back when our Corvairs were being made,  the 
> quality of 
> American made cars was not good.  The cars out of Japan were  better 
> quality in 
> the 60s but suffered from the poor quality reputation of the  
> Japanese products 
> made immediately after WW 2.  Back then, the phrase,  "Made in 
> Japan" was 
> used to indicate anything of low quality.  Now it means  just the 
> opposite.  The 
> Japanese kicked the US manufacturer's butts on  quality and fuel 
> economy back 
> then but no more.  The US cars are as good as  any in the world but 
> we suffer 
> from the poor quality reputation that we deserved  up until maybe 10 
> years 
> ago.  What goes around comes around.
>  
> Now, if only the US manufacturers could learn management and  labor 
> relations 
> lessons from the Japanese, they might not need a  bailout.  Keep in 
> mind that 
> most Japanese vehicles available in the US are  made here by US 
> labor so you 
> need to identify the real differences.  Buying  a Japanese vehicle 
> will not 
> send jobs overseas immediately (eventually, yes) but  it does send 
> profits 
> overseas.  Those profits pay for research and design  as well as 
> investment in 
> modern equipment which are sorely needed by US  manufacturers.  
> Didn't GM recently 
> announce a hold on new  development?  Talk about eating your seed 
> grain.  If 
> US manufacturers  don't have profits and keep up with innovations 
> and 
> modernization, they will  eventually fail.  A bailout may be 
> necessary but it will add 
> to the stigma  the US manufacturers suffer in comparison to the 
> Japanese.
>  
> As far as the Firestone tires are concerned, the "Buy US"  debate 
> doesn't 
> matter.  Firestone is a wholly owned subsidiary of  Bridgestone 
> which is a 
> Japanese company.
>  
> Doc
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> In a message dated 11/8/2008 7:46:24 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
> virtualvairs-request at corvair.org writes:
> 
> Message:  8
> Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 21:26:46 -0500
> From: Bruce Schug  <bwschug at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: <VV> Tires
> To: Virtual  Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Message-ID:  <CF0D7BE9-8A9D-4DB2-AF80-0F799AE8BA50 at charter.net>
> Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
> 
> 
> On Nov 8, 2008, at 4:27 PM, Ken Lundy (Home)  wrote:
> 
> > I recently bought the Firestone tires mentioned in the  
> Communique. I?m 
> very happy with them.
> 
> The good thing about the  Firestones is that they're made of rubber, 
> not rice.
> 
> If you don't  understand my comment, what I'm referring to is buying 
> products 
> made by  American companies as opposed to companies in other 
> countries. Half 
> the  people I know, probably more, drive Toyotas, Hondas, etc. Now 
> look where  
> the Big Three are. American companies make tires, cars, and other  
> products 
> that, in most cases, are as good as any. If they're not as good,  
> they're 
> usually good enough for me. They say any new car has better  quality 
> than any car 
> did ten years ago.
> 
> Within the next few weeks we'll  probably see the government loan or 
> give 
> billions of $$$ to GM, Ford, and  Chrysler or they will go out of 
> business and 
> our economy will probably  collapse. (Remember this is billions - 
> $1,000,000,000s) This will be OUR  tax money at work. Everyone that 
> buys Toyotas, etc., 
> should think about  this.
> 
> Pardon my somewhat political comments, but Firestone makes  
> excellent tires. 
> >From what I understand, Hankook tires are just fine too.  Ya pays 
> yer money 
> and ya makes yer  choice.
> 
> Bruce
> 
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